Misleading Debian's installer choice
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From: Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. on 29 Jun 2010 17:10 On Tuesday 29 June 2010 15:48:59 Merciadri Luca wrote: > I'm not sure to understand fully your answer. I know that `guided > partitioning' is what's adviced for a new user, because it's easy to > configurate, but I'm here speaking about users who're not beginners, > but who want to understand the distinction the Debian installer makes > between the `/' as it is normally in Linux filesystems, and the `/' in > the installation process, which is actually everything except what was > asked to be put on other partitions. Huh? There isn't a difference. Or, at least you are going to have to be a bit more explicit about what you want told to not-new users. The partition containing your file system mounted at '/' does not contain the data stored in the file system mount at '/home'. (Assuming you have a separate file system mounted at '/home'.) -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. bss(a)iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
From: Merciadri Luca on 29 Jun 2010 17:20 Mark wrote: > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Merciadri Luca > <Luca.Merciadri(a)student.ulg.ac.be > <mailto:Luca.Merciadri(a)student.ulg.ac.be>> wrote: > > > A last problem (still for me) is that the `Bootable flag' thing is not > clear: you can choose to put the bootable flag on, say, /tmp/ (if you > choose to put /tmp/ on a seperate partition), where I don't think that > it could have any interest (except making things messy). > > Don't hesitate to comment this. > > > Yes, but you said this wasn't for beginners in your original post so > if a non-beginner can't get the Bootable Flag set up on the right > partition to boot, they are not a non-beginner...so this point > probably doesn't apply. > Okay. But why allowing something that has no interest to be done, to be done, be it by a beginner or not? -- Merciadri Luca See http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/ I use PGP. If there is an incompatibility problem with your mail client, please contact me.
From: Joey Hess on 29 Jun 2010 17:20 Merciadri Luca wrote: > First, I always found the `mount point' expression weird in this > context, because, for me, the mount point _is_ always the partition, > during the installation, but this is not the problem. You have this common terminology exactly backwards. One mounts /dev/hda1 on mount point / or /dev/sdb5 on mount point /home; one does not mount /home on /dev/sdb5. HTH :-) I fixed the next paragraph for you: | The biggest problem is that you are able to choose between, say, `/', | `/var/', '/usr/', `/home/', etc. But, without thinking a lot, `/' | *habitually* contains the rest. So, mounting say hda1 `/`, and | hdb1 on `/home/` could appear as weird for the user, at first glance (only). > I'm here speaking about users who're not beginners, > but who want to understand the distinction the Debian installer makes > between the `/' as it is normally in Linux filesystems, and the `/' in > the installation process, which is actually everything except what was > asked to be put on other partitions. The mental model that most non-beginners should have is that the system's root is / , which is where some system disk is mounted, and that additional disks are mounted to other mount points in the tree. The disk mounted at / is not a special case in not containing everything under / -- the disk mounted on /home does not necessarily contain everything under /home either. (I may have another (larger) disk mounted on /home/joey.) Everything said in the installation process should be consistent with that. Of course, the installer doesn't require users understand this stuff either. But I think you're making it seem more complicated than it is. -- see shy jo
From: Camaleón on 29 Jun 2010 17:20 On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 22:02:49 +0200, Merciadri Luca wrote: (...) > First, I always found the `mount point' expression weird in this > context, because, for me, the mount point _is_ always the partition, > during the installation, but this is not the problem. "Mount point" or "bind" yes, at last in means where do you want to put your files based upon your partitioning scheme. > The biggest problem is that you are able to choose between, say, `/', > `/var/', '/usr/', `/home/', etc. But, without thinking a lot, `/' > *habitually* contains the rest. So, mounting say `/' on hda1, and > `/home/' on hdb1 could appear as weird for the user, at first glance > (only). It depends. There are many situations and setups where having a separate disk and/or partition is a very good choice (speed or security/redundancy gains). (side note: one thing I found very pleasant about Debian is that it has a very good and a lot of documentation): *** C.3. Recommended Partitioning Scheme http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/apcs03.html.en *** Anyway, experience will tell you what path to follow. > What do you think about this? (I'm known for my outlandish ideas, so, > don't be angry if I'm wrong.) Partitioning strategies can be very fine-grained and mainly based on the machine target and the type of the services that will host. I personally do not like having many partitions so with "small" disks (<500 GiB) usually make 2 "slices": swap and root ("/")... and have many backups around there :-) Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.06.29.21.14.32(a)gmail.com
From: Merciadri Luca on 29 Jun 2010 17:20
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > On Tuesday 29 June 2010 15:48:59 Merciadri Luca wrote: > >> I'm not sure to understand fully your answer. I know that `guided >> partitioning' is what's adviced for a new user, because it's easy to >> configurate, but I'm here speaking about users who're not beginners, >> but who want to understand the distinction the Debian installer makes >> between the `/' as it is normally in Linux filesystems, and the `/' in >> the installation process, which is actually everything except what was >> asked to be put on other partitions. >> > > Huh? There isn't a difference. Or, at least you are going to have to be a > bit more explicit about what you want told to not-new users. > > The partition containing your file system mounted at '/' does not contain the > data stored in the file system mount at '/home'. (Assuming you have a > separate file system mounted at '/home'.) > Sure, but that's not my point of view when I install the thing. This must be related to me. :) -- Merciadri Luca See http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/ I use PGP. If there is an incompatibility problem with your mail client, please contact me. Good supervision is the art of getting average people to do superior work. |