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From: Jeff Liebermann on 12 May 2010 15:28 On Wed, 12 May 2010 18:28:17 +0000, Larry <noone(a)home.com> wrote: >This browser will be downloadable to any phone that supports a browser >in the near future, not just Linux. Not sure if they're gonna hobble it >up so Apple will approve, though. Apple approved Opera Mini, so it's likely to also approve Firefox: <http://www.opera.com/press/releases/2010/04/13/> -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
From: Larry on 12 May 2010 15:33 Jeff Liebermann <jeffl(a)cruzio.com> wrote in news:2bvlu5to0ojjgt2ijr88sv49q4h5dl12aq(a)4ax.com: > This is a spreadsheet comparing Dell and Apple products I produced in > Dec 2009. > Whoa, Jeff! You gotta quit comparing reality to the Apple Delusional Distortion Field....especially with MATHEMATICS! Not all fanboiz have health insurance to cover the medical problems looking at a spreadsheet of FACTS could create! Take it easy! -- Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics. Larry
From: Jeff Liebermann on 12 May 2010 20:06 On Wed, 12 May 2010 15:48:57 -0400, nospam <nospam(a)nospam.invalid> wrote: >> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Mac-vs-PC.xls> >> I did my best to select comparable products. Most of the Dell >> products are now obsolete and have been replaced with other machines. >> All the Apple machines listed are unchanged (as of about 2 weeks ago). >> Bottom line is that Apple products cost about twice as much, except >> for the 13" MacBook. > >not when the specs are matched they don't. a quick look at your >spreadsheet indicates you didn't match all of them. for instance, the >mac mini versus inspiron 537s - the mac has firewire 800, the inspiron >doesn't. A PCI Firewire 800 4 port card is about $40 retail. Add that to the cost of the Dell 537s and it doesn't put a dent in the 2:1 price differential. However, you're correct that it should be included. Anything else I missed? >the mac has os x, while the inspiron has windows home, not >ultimate. There's nothing in Ultimate that the average home user really needs. The only real difference is that Ultimate includes Backup-Restore, BitLocker (HD encryption), and login scripting for corporate LANs. Does OS/X include any of these? If you really want to compare operating systems, does Apple bundle any productivity software such as MS Works with their systems? Let's try it another way.... Do you see any screaming from the Windoze 7 Home users complaining that there's something they desperately need in the operating system, but because it's missing are "forced" to upgrade to Ultimate? I don't see this among my customers. Therefore, Windoze 7 Home is good enough. >you did list the gpu difference, however. match *everything* >and the price is not that much different. You're welcome to use my spreadsheet as a starting point and demonstrate that I'm wrong. Dell no longer sells the Inspiron 537S and I'm too lazy to lookup the current equivalent. There is NO way that I can create a feature for feature hardware equivalency between the Mac and the PC. I did the best I could with what was available. There will be some variability compliments of bundling software, mice, keyboards, trialware, and utilities. However, even the most optimistic adjustment is not going to negate the several hundred dollar price difference. Incidentally, that spreadsheet took me about 10 hours to build. I don't want to do it again. >> If all this is true, then Apple can sell its iPhones for twice the >> price of the Android phones, and not lose any customers or new sales. >> Except in luxury items, I don't know of any other industry that has >> such company (not product) loyalty. > >they in effect are doing exactly that, since verizon is doing a two for >one deal for the droid. Yep, that's why I mentioned it. Actually, I'm jealous and so are quite a few other manufacturers. Any company that can convince a large segment of the public to pay double for the nameplate is doing something right. -- # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060 # 831-336-2558 # http://802.11junk.com jeffl(a)cruzio.com # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
From: nospam on 12 May 2010 22:53 In article <grfmu5pmklna17n6fu08g1j0dvi27tp4on(a)4ax.com>, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl(a)cruzio.com> wrote: > >the mac has os x, while the inspiron has windows home, not > >ultimate. > > There's nothing in Ultimate that the average home user really needs. maybe not but there is still a difference. > The only real difference is that Ultimate includes Backup-Restore, > BitLocker (HD encryption), and login scripting for corporate LANs. average users don't need backup-restore???? > Does OS/X include any of these? it includes the first two, and the backup-restore is mind-numbingly easy. i'm not sure what login scripting for corporate lans entails so i don't know if it has it or not, but since os x is unix, i'm going to guess yes. vpn and support for windows networks is all built in. > If you really want to compare > operating systems, does Apple bundle any productivity software such as > MS Works with their systems? os x includes an app called textedit which can read/write microsoft word documents. microsoft exchange support is built in. all macs include the ilife suite which is consumer software for photos, videos, slide shows, dvds, etc. apple's iwork ($79) is a word/excel/keynote substitute and supports those formats in addition to its own. there is also openoffice which is free. > You're welcome to use my spreadsheet as a starting point and > demonstrate that I'm wrong. Dell no longer sells the Inspiron 537S > and I'm too lazy to lookup the current equivalent. There is NO way > that I can create a feature for feature hardware equivalency between > the Mac and the PC. I did the best I could with what was available. it's incomplete. here's an older comparison, very detailed <http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2007/0807_dt1800.html> tom's hardware built a custom pc to match a mac pro, $5 difference. <http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-mac-leopard-windows-vista,198 5-2.html> > >> If all this is true, then Apple can sell its iPhones for twice the > >> price of the Android phones, and not lose any customers or new sales. > >> Except in luxury items, I don't know of any other industry that has > >> such company (not product) loyalty. > > > >they in effect are doing exactly that, since verizon is doing a two for > >one deal for the droid. > > Yep, that's why I mentioned it. > > Actually, I'm jealous and so are quite a few other manufacturers. Any > company that can convince a large segment of the public to pay double > for the nameplate is doing something right. or you can look at it the other way, why does verizon need to offer two for one to move stock?
From: Jeff Liebermann on 12 May 2010 23:49
On Wed, 12 May 2010 22:53:23 -0400, nospam <nospam(a)nospam.invalid> wrote: >> There's nothing in Ultimate that the average home user really needs. > >maybe not but there is still a difference. If the Dell came with Windoze 7 Basic, I would have added an upgrade to home. Ultimate was designed for business users, not home. I'll stand on my choice of operating systems. >> The only real difference is that Ultimate includes Backup-Restore, >> BitLocker (HD encryption), and login scripting for corporate LANs. > >average users don't need backup-restore???? Nobody does backups until after a major crash and associated data loss. The Microsoft backup and restore programs are not what I would call very useful. Most users get their backup programs from 3rd party vendors or bundled with their backup drives (usually USB or NAT). >> Does OS/X include any of these? > >it includes the first two, and the backup-restore is mind-numbingly >easy. MS Backup is about the same. Crude would be generous. It fails miserably if there are bad sectors, read error, or strange characters in the filenames. I'm a big fan of mirror backups, which is not supplied by either MS or Apple. If you insist, the cost of a typical commercial backup program for the PC is about $35. >i'm not sure what login scripting for corporate lans entails so i >don't know if it has it or not, but since os x is unix, i'm going to >guess yes. vpn and support for windows networks is all built in. MS includes a PPTP and IPSec clients. I'm not sure about L2TP. If they're not included, I think they can be freely downloaded. The login scripting is a leftover from Novell, which runs a batch file on startup in order to setup printers and home directories. In all cases, none of these are useful for the average home user and can be supplied separately with a free download. >> If you really want to compare >> operating systems, does Apple bundle any productivity software such as >> MS Works with their systems? > >os x includes an app called textedit which can read/write microsoft >word documents. microsoft exchange support is built in. all macs >include the ilife suite which is consumer software for photos, videos, >slide shows, dvds, etc. apple's iwork ($79) is a word/excel/keynote >substitute and supports those formats in addition to its own. there is >also openoffice which is free. Nice, but that's roughly the same as MS Works which is bundled with most Dell home systems. As long as there's nothing that the PC (or Mac) user has to go out and buy in order to actually *USE* the system, I don't see any need to add it to the cost. >> You're welcome to use my spreadsheet as a starting point and >> demonstrate that I'm wrong. Dell no longer sells the Inspiron 537S >> and I'm too lazy to lookup the current equivalent. There is NO way >> that I can create a feature for feature hardware equivalency between >> the Mac and the PC. I did the best I could with what was available. > >it's incomplete. How so? What's missing? I agree on the Firewire 800 port, that none of the PC users will ever need or use. Anything else? Please feel free to take what I've done and improve on it. Incidentally, I did a quick check on current prices. For the higher end Mac Mini in my spreadsheet, I came up with $799. Last years Dell Inspiron 537s was $479. The current Dell mini-desktop is the Inspiron 560S at $529 with a few more features (i.e. faster CPU). 1.5:1 price ratio. If I could find a model with the slower 2.53GHz CPU found in the Mac Mini, it would probably be closer to 2:1 again. <http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=ddcwcc1> The better $580s comes in at the same price: <http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=ddcwzb1> >here's an older comparison, very detailed ><http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2007/0807_dt1800.html> 3.5 years old. That's forever in this business. The Dell XPS desktop and laptop machines are seriously overpriced and of generally lousy quality. The comparison is quite valid if limited to the XPS line of overpriced junk. I think it was suppose to be some kind of high end product line, with advanced styling, and little else to show for the price tag. If compared with the more economical Optiplex, Dimension, or Inspiron lines, the PC price would be very different. I like the detail on the operating system features. However, the differences itemized are not exactly important applications. (save as PDF, faxing, web server services, and system encryption) Same with the applications. It's not like Vista Home Premium is totally useless for the typical home user. >tom's hardware built a custom pc to match a mac pro, $5 difference. ><http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-mac-leopard-windows-vista,198 >5-2.html> See user comment on Page 2: "After reading this article I went to the Apple site and configured a Mac Pro with 2 Xeon�s, 8GB memory and 4TB storage. Cost: about �6000 ($8000) Then I went to a local webshop and put together a machine with the same specs as the one on the Apple site except I put in a GTX 280. Total cost: less then �3000." 2:1 again. Reading the article, it looks like a comparison between a base model Mac, and the most expensive bleeding edge hardware they could find for the PC. >or you can look at it the other way, why does verizon need to offer two >for one to move stock? To lock in customers into 2 year contracts and to get ahead of what apparently is going to be a deluge of PDA phones and iClones. If discounting is what it takes to prevent people from buying iPhones, then Verizon is willing to take the price hit at the front in order to grab and hold the customers. The cost of the phone is subsidized by the vendor over the term of the contract. They could probably give away the phones for free, in trade for a 2 year contract. I guess the phone costs about $200. Over 24 month contract, that's $8.33/month which is peanuts out of a typical $80/month (with data plan) contract. However, since the major competitor (iPhone + AT&T) doesn't do that, there's no reason for any of the other vendors to do so. If Verizon gave away the phones for free, would you claim that the phones are worthless? -- # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060 # 831-336-2558 # http://802.11junk.com jeffl(a)cruzio.com # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS |