Rigol oscilloscope prices have sky-rocketed!
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From: miso on 5 Jan 2010 02:15 On Jan 4, 11:09 pm, "Mr.T" <MrT(a)home> wrote: > <m...(a)sushi.com> wrote in message > > news:23b6594d-3c71-45d0-885a-bb5cbf16ce1f(a)a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > > >Topaz transformers show up from time to time at electronics flea > >markets. In the days when small company owned a Vax, the Topaz was > >your isolation transformer. > > Yep, had a Topaz myself once, but I've never seen one going cheap in > Australia! Not to say it can't happen, but you'd have to be very lucky, not > something the OP can necessarily go and buy at a reasonable price just > because he wants it. And not something you'd want to carry in your car > either, to use with an inverter supply! > > MrT. Freight for a Topaz down under would be significant. Topaz has made some units that are small, well small for a Topaz. Maybe 12x8x8 inches.
From: miso on 5 Jan 2010 02:20 On Jan 4, 7:48 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > m...(a)sushi.com wrote: > > On Jan 4, 5:36 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> geoff wrote: > >>> David L. Jones wrote: > > >>>> "Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has > >>>> complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a > >>>> dumping price" He then offered to complete the original low price > >>>> transaction > >>>> outside of ebay. > > >>> Why should 'dumping prices' be a problem ? > > >> It shouldn't be a problem until a local official seller that can't > >> possibly sell them for the same price complains. > >> There are countless companies like (presumably) Rigol that have > >> diferent wholesale pricing in different countries, so an official > >> dealer in say Australia can't even buy it for less than what someone > >> in China sells it for > >> at a profit. Or to hold on to their dealership they aren't allowed > >> to sell > >> it under a certain price. > >> With the advent of ebay and online trading, the world is a global > >> marketplace, so these sorts of traditional regional pricing models > >> make it a big fat mess. > >> You can bet your bottom dollar the ebay sellers in China are (or > >> were) not dumping the scopes at a loss, they made a very tidy profit. > > >> I have since heard that another Rigol seller also had their auctions > >> banned > >> for "dumping". So this appears to be the reason for removal of the > >> hundreds > >> of Rigol's that were for sale on Ebay. > >> So it's likely that one (probably official Rigol) seller, that may > >> not even sell on Ebay, spoiled all the fun by complaining. > > >> Dave. > > >> -- > >> ================================================ > >> Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & > >> Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com > > > Dumping is selling beneath the cost of manufacturing, so only the > > manufacturer can dump. A vendor can buy out the merchandise from a > > store that goes out of business and sell those items for less than the > > manufacturing cost. In the states, the FTC would have to declare a > > dumping situation. [I haven't had to deal with the FTC in a long > > time, but it was an amazingly accessible organization considering you > > were dealing with the government. > > > Like I've said, I need to see the documents on this alleged dumping. > > There almost certainly aren't any, it's an internal ebay decision. > The seller probably just got an email informing them their listings have > been removed because of a breach of some rule, and that's it, end of story. > Some monkey at Ebay has spoken. > > > I just don't see Ebay taking sides in any kind of dispute like this. > > Ebay are judge, jury and executioner, and they are famous for showing it. > Indeed, they have to be shown to take complaints of legal matters seriously, > and they err on the side of caution every time. If they get any complaint > with the wiff of a legal basis, they'll just pull the listing(s). > Their site, their rules, they don't muck around, and the "victim" (sellers > in this case) usually doesn't get any recourse. > > > Rather, I see Rigol deciding not to sell stock to certain vendors that > > they don't like. > > Maybe, but there are many other ways to obtain them, esp in China, so that > doesn't explain the lack of no more cheap Rigol scopes on Ebay. > The only facts are that Ebay have removed the cheap Rigol listings for what > they are calling "dumping". > You can still buy the unit at the old cheap prices from various other online > dealers, drop-shippers, and Chinese sources, here is but one example:http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=rigol&CatId=0 > > Dave. > > -- > ================================================ > Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com I didn't want the scope. [I'm the one that suggested getting a used Tek versus Chinese mystery gear.] I'm just very doubtful of the story. Ebay has as much to lose from dissing a seller as to dissing an manufacturer. In fact, more to lose from dissing the seller since the manufacturer isn't sell their product on ebay. Basically, the story doesn't pass the smell test. Now if Rigol cut out the sleazy dealers, that would also explain the scope not being on ebay, right? It is far easier for Rigol to not give the jerk gear to sell rather than try to get ebay to prevent the sale. Doctor, it hurts when I do this. Well, stop doing that!
From: David L. Jones on 5 Jan 2010 02:49 miso(a)sushi.com wrote: > On Jan 4, 7:48 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> m...(a)sushi.com wrote: >>> On Jan 4, 5:36 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> geoff wrote: >>>>> David L. Jones wrote: >> >>>>>> "Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has >>>>>> complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a >>>>>> dumping price" He then offered to complete the original low price >>>>>> transaction >>>>>> outside of ebay. >> >>>>> Why should 'dumping prices' be a problem ? >> >>>> It shouldn't be a problem until a local official seller that can't >>>> possibly sell them for the same price complains. >>>> There are countless companies like (presumably) Rigol that have >>>> diferent wholesale pricing in different countries, so an official >>>> dealer in say Australia can't even buy it for less than what >>>> someone in China sells it for >>>> at a profit. Or to hold on to their dealership they aren't allowed >>>> to sell >>>> it under a certain price. >>>> With the advent of ebay and online trading, the world is a global >>>> marketplace, so these sorts of traditional regional pricing models >>>> make it a big fat mess. >>>> You can bet your bottom dollar the ebay sellers in China are (or >>>> were) not dumping the scopes at a loss, they made a very tidy >>>> profit. >> >>>> I have since heard that another Rigol seller also had their >>>> auctions banned >>>> for "dumping". So this appears to be the reason for removal of the >>>> hundreds >>>> of Rigol's that were for sale on Ebay. >>>> So it's likely that one (probably official Rigol) seller, that may >>>> not even sell on Ebay, spoiled all the fun by complaining. >> >>>> Dave. >> >>>> -- >>>> ================================================ >>>> Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & >>>> Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com >> >>> Dumping is selling beneath the cost of manufacturing, so only the >>> manufacturer can dump. A vendor can buy out the merchandise from a >>> store that goes out of business and sell those items for less than >>> the manufacturing cost. In the states, the FTC would have to >>> declare a dumping situation. [I haven't had to deal with the FTC in >>> a long time, but it was an amazingly accessible organization >>> considering you were dealing with the government. >> >>> Like I've said, I need to see the documents on this alleged dumping. >> >> There almost certainly aren't any, it's an internal ebay decision. >> The seller probably just got an email informing them their listings >> have >> been removed because of a breach of some rule, and that's it, end of >> story. >> Some monkey at Ebay has spoken. >> >>> I just don't see Ebay taking sides in any kind of dispute like this. >> >> Ebay are judge, jury and executioner, and they are famous for >> showing it. >> Indeed, they have to be shown to take complaints of legal matters >> seriously, >> and they err on the side of caution every time. If they get any >> complaint >> with the wiff of a legal basis, they'll just pull the listing(s). >> Their site, their rules, they don't muck around, and the "victim" >> (sellers >> in this case) usually doesn't get any recourse. >> >>> Rather, I see Rigol deciding not to sell stock to certain vendors >>> that they don't like. >> >> Maybe, but there are many other ways to obtain them, esp in China, >> so that >> doesn't explain the lack of no more cheap Rigol scopes on Ebay. >> The only facts are that Ebay have removed the cheap Rigol listings >> for what >> they are calling "dumping". >> You can still buy the unit at the old cheap prices from various >> other online >> dealers, drop-shippers, and Chinese sources, here is but one >> example:http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=rigol&CatId=0 >> >> Dave. >> >> -- >> ================================================ >> Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & >> Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com > > I didn't want the scope. [I'm the one that suggested getting a used > Tek versus Chinese mystery gear.] I'm just very doubtful of the story. I have heard from two people who have contacted previous Rigol ebay sellers directly, and both have said their listings were pulled for the same "dumping" reason. So there is no reason to doubt the story. > Ebay has as much to lose from dissing a seller as to dissing an > manufacturer. In fact, more to lose from dissing the seller since the > manufacturer isn't sell their product on ebay. Ebay already make so much money the commisions on these scopes are nothing to them. It is more important to them that they be seen to be acting on complaints. It's been happening for many years now, nothing new here at all. > Basically, the story doesn't pass the smell test. Now if Rigol cut out > the sleazy dealers, that would also explain the scope not being on > ebay, right? Wrong. As I said, there are plenty of places to buy this scope wholesale cheaply in China, so I imagine it would be hard for Rigol to cut out these small time ebay sellers directly. There were so many cut price Rigol sellers on ebay you didn't know were to look, everyone simply jumped on the Rigol popularity bandwagon, flipping it for a profit to us westerners from whomever they bought it from in China. There were zero reported cases of any dodgy sellers. All that are left now are a couple of the expensive sellers. > It is far easier for Rigol to not give the jerk gear to > sell rather than try to get ebay to prevent the sale. Nope, much easier for someone (maybe Rigol directly, we don't know) to simply complain to Ebay and let them use their famous overzealous legal paranoia to block all cheap sellers. Doing it the other way around would be like pushing brown stuff up a hill with a pointy stick. Dave. -- ================================================ Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast: http://www.eevblog.com
From: E on 5 Jan 2010 03:42 "VWWall" <vwall(a)large.invalid> kirjoitti viestiss�:wN6dnWD6k6DfPt_WnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d(a)earthlink.com... > Mr.T wrote: >> <miso(a)sushi.com> wrote in message >> news:8e1c962a-a471-448b-89b6-7239675017f0(a)k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com... >>> Surplus isolation transformers are pretty cheap. >> >> >> Yeah when we had surplus stores here I got many big transformers that >> way. >> They all (electronics surplus stores) disappeared years ago >> unfortunately. >> > You can make an isolation transformer that will handle a kilowatt from two > junked microwave oven transformers. Just remove the HV windings and the > magnetic shunt, leaving the primary windings. Connect them together with > two coils wound on each core with a few turns of No 12 insulated building > wire. Calculate the number of turns to not exceed 20A at the intended > maximum load. > Would it work if I just connect HV windings together? So as to avoid any rewounding job. -ek
From: Mike Harrison on 5 Jan 2010 05:30
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:42:11 +0200, "E" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >"VWWall" <vwall(a)large.invalid> kirjoitti >viestiss�:wN6dnWD6k6DfPt_WnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >> Mr.T wrote: >>> <miso(a)sushi.com> wrote in message >>> news:8e1c962a-a471-448b-89b6-7239675017f0(a)k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com... >>>> Surplus isolation transformers are pretty cheap. >>> >>> >>> Yeah when we had surplus stores here I got many big transformers that >>> way. >>> They all (electronics surplus stores) disappeared years ago >>> unfortunately. >>> >> You can make an isolation transformer that will handle a kilowatt from two >> junked microwave oven transformers. Just remove the HV windings and the >> magnetic shunt, leaving the primary windings. Connect them together with >> two coils wound on each core with a few turns of No 12 insulated building >> wire. Calculate the number of turns to not exceed 20A at the intended >> maximum load. >> > >Would it work if I just connect HV windings together? >So as to avoid any rewounding job. >-ek Yes, although MOTs, being cheaply made are likely to run close to saturation, so you may find they behave slightly less well than a properly rated isolation transformer. By all means try it, as the raw materials are available often for free, and take great care of the HV, which WILL kill you easily! Make sure you connect the cores to a good mains earth. |