Rigol oscilloscope prices have sky-rocketed!
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From: kreed on 2 Jan 2010 20:32 On Jan 3, 7:41 am, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...(a)interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote: > On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 13:26:44 -0800 (PST), the renowned "m...(a)sushi.com" > > > > <m...(a)sushi.com> wrote: > >On Jan 2, 7:08 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)) it happened > >> "m...(a)sushi.com" <m...(a)sushi.com> wrote in > >> <13bba92c-7810-4018-8af9-62277a0aa...(a)m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>: > > >> >On Jan 1, 7:01 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Jan 2010 05:57:24 -0800 (PST)) it happened > >> >> "m...(a)sushi.com" <m...(a)sushi.com> wrote in > >> >> <b1b6edcc-fbeb-439e-bd13-7a2f3b8f8...(a)a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>: > > >> >> >I was thinking of the Bitscope 100u, mostly because it is isolated > >> >> >from the PC (less hash) and they support Linux. I have a great > >> >> >distrust of Windows and USB due to driver issues. > > >> >> That seems to be only 40 meg samples / second. > > >> >Yes, not a great scope, but I have real bench equipment. I have > >> >nothing 12V portable. The Rigol doesn't buy me anything that I can't > >> >get with a used Tek DSO. The 40MHz limit would be fine for my > >> >portable purposes. > > >> A 12V to 240V converter that easily powers a scope plus some other stuff, > >> with a plug that fits the cigatette lighter is only 35 Euro or less here. > >> http://www.gelders.org/start.php?voedingen_en_transformatoren_spannin... > > >Those "modified sine" inverters are death to electronics, and > >certainly to measurements since they radiate RF hash. A true sine is > >substantially more money. > > Have you actually had them damage anything? I've run chargers for > multiple laptops, cellphones, iPods, etc. as well as solder stations > and other stuff from them without problems, though I do worry. Both > the peak and RMS volages are close enough that it shouldn't bother > electronics (aside from the potential EMC issue). > > Best regards, > Spehro Pefhany > -- > "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" > sp...(a)interlog.com Info for manufacturers:http://www.trexon.com > Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com 2 problems I have had with modified sine wave inverters on electronic equipment 1. - They won't run my Dewalt cordless drill charger (comes on but wont put a noticeable charge into the battery), I think that they use a series capacitor type power supply (transformerless). 2. - Blew the mains fuse in my ERSA temperature controlled iron (has 50hz transformer). I see no reason that a pure sine wave unit wouldnt work fine though. Modified sine wave should work ok with 240v soldering irons (240v element, no transformer) or switchmode power supplies. I would however test these thoroughly before taking into the field.
From: miso on 3 Jan 2010 00:34 On Jan 2, 3:51 pm, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...(a)interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote: > On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 13:34:39 -0800 (PST), the renowned "m...(a)sushi.com" > > > > <m...(a)sushi.com> wrote: > >On Jan 2, 8:07 am, John Devereux <j...(a)devereux.me.uk> wrote: > >> "m...(a)sushi.com" <m...(a)sushi.com> writes: > >> > On Jan 1, 9:33 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> Greegor wrote: > >> >> > David: > >> >> > You said the seller wrote to somebody: > >> >> >> <quote> > >> >> >> "Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has > >> >> >> complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a > >> >> >> dumping price" > >> >> >> He then offered to complete the original low price transaction > >> >> >> outside of ebay. > > >> >> > Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story > >> >> > that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few > >> >> > more suckers to send them money outside > >> >> > of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal? > > >> >> Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said. > >> >> Buyer-beware, as always. > >> >> If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known non-ebay > >> >> seller. > >> >> Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of > >> >> (legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared. There is > >> >> somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single case of anyone being > >> >> scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you I get a lot of feedback on this > >> >> issue though my blog. Doesn't mean it's safe of course. > > >> >> > How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not? > > >> >> Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear > >> >> previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most of the > >> >> sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay pulling their > >> >> auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's more probable than not the > >> >> seller is not a scammer, they are just caught up in whatever is happening > >> >> here. > > >> >> Dave. > > >> >> -- > >> >> --------------------------------------------- > >> >> Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com > > >> > Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item > >> > as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying these > >> > dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they don't like.. > > >> Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A friend of > >> mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after they were > >> released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing was removed > >> since it was "illegal" to sell them. > > >> -- > > >> John Devereux > > >I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the > >story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security > >concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is > >pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on > >CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer > >provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers. > >I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are > >inferring. Probably Sony told ebay the goods are counterfeit. > > eBay enforcement is based on complaints.. which could come from > competitors, or the mfrs like Sony. You can bet they take any > complaint from companies like Sony and Disney very seriously. > > Best regards, > Spehro Pefhany > -- > "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" > sp...(a)interlog.com Info for manufacturers:http://www.trexon.com > Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com There has to be some justification in the complaint. For instance, if Sony says the seller has bad breath, ebay probably won't stop the sale. Counterfeit goods, advertising used as new, etc, would probably do the trick. Like I said, we need to get the whole story. Note that ebay doesn't exactly want to get the so-called illegal seller all pissed off either. Case in point are radio scanners that are not legal to be sold as new in the US due to cellular reception. These sell all the time on ebay. So you are telling me that ebay has no fear of the feds, but bows down to Mickey Mouse?
From: John Devereux on 3 Jan 2010 02:13 "miso(a)sushi.com" <miso(a)sushi.com> writes: > On Jan 2, 8:07 am, John Devereux <j...(a)devereux.me.uk> wrote: >> "m...(a)sushi.com" <m...(a)sushi.com> writes: [...] >> >> > Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item >> > as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying these >> > dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they don't like. >> >> Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A friend of >> mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after they were >> released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing was removed >> since it was "illegal" to sell them. >> > > I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the > story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security > concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is > pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on > CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer > provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers. > I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are > inferring. Probably Sony told ebay the goods are counterfeit. Possibly, or that the software was not licenced for UK sale perhaps. IIRC it wasn't just him, all similar ads got taken down. -- John Devereux
From: Nico Coesel on 3 Jan 2010 09:07 Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP(a)interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote: >On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 13:34:39 -0800 (PST), the renowned "miso(a)sushi.com" ><miso(a)sushi.com> wrote: > >>> Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A friend of >>> mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after they were >>> released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing was removed >>> since it was "illegal" to sell them. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> John Devereux >> >>I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the >>story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security >>concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is >>pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on >>CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer >>provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers. >>I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are >>inferring. Probably Sony told ebay the goods are counterfeit. > >eBay enforcement is based on complaints.. which could come from >competitors, or the mfrs like Sony. You can bet they take any >complaint from companies like Sony and Disney very seriously. AFAIK Ebay is very quick to take down listings. They don't bother to investigate whether a claim is true or false. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico(a)nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jamie on 3 Jan 2010 09:43
kreed wrote: > On Jan 3, 7:41 am, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...(a)interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> > wrote: > >>On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 13:26:44 -0800 (PST), the renowned "m...(a)sushi.com" >> >> >> >><m...(a)sushi.com> wrote: >> >>>On Jan 2, 7:08 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)) it happened >>>>"m...(a)sushi.com" <m...(a)sushi.com> wrote in >>>><13bba92c-7810-4018-8af9-62277a0aa...(a)m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>: >> >>>>>On Jan 1, 7:01 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Jan 2010 05:57:24 -0800 (PST)) it happened >>>>>>"m...(a)sushi.com" <m...(a)sushi.com> wrote in >>>>>><b1b6edcc-fbeb-439e-bd13-7a2f3b8f8...(a)a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>: >> >>>>>>>I was thinking of the Bitscope 100u, mostly because it is isolated >>>>>> >>>>>>>from the PC (less hash) and they support Linux. I have a great >>>>>> >>>>>>>distrust of Windows and USB due to driver issues. >> >>>>>>That seems to be only 40 meg samples / second. >> >>>>>Yes, not a great scope, but I have real bench equipment. I have >>>>>nothing 12V portable. The Rigol doesn't buy me anything that I can't >>>>>get with a used Tek DSO. The 40MHz limit would be fine for my >>>>>portable purposes. >> >>>>A 12V to 240V converter that easily powers a scope plus some other stuff, >>>>with a plug that fits the cigatette lighter is only 35 Euro or less here. >>>> http://www.gelders.org/start.php?voedingen_en_transformatoren_spannin... >> >>>Those "modified sine" inverters are death to electronics, and >>>certainly to measurements since they radiate RF hash. A true sine is >>>substantially more money. >> >>Have you actually had them damage anything? I've run chargers for >>multiple laptops, cellphones, iPods, etc. as well as solder stations >>and other stuff from them without problems, though I do worry. Both >>the peak and RMS volages are close enough that it shouldn't bother >>electronics (aside from the potential EMC issue). >> > > >>Best regards, >>Spehro Pefhany >>-- >>"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" >>sp...(a)interlog.com Info for manufacturers:http://www.trexon.com >>Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com > > > 2 problems I have had with modified sine wave inverters on electronic > equipment > > 1. - They won't run my Dewalt cordless drill charger (comes on but > wont put a noticeable charge into the battery), > I think that they use a series capacitor type power supply > (transformerless). > > 2. - Blew the mains fuse in my ERSA temperature controlled iron (has > 50hz transformer). > > I see no reason that a pure sine wave unit wouldnt work fine though. > > > Modified sine wave should work ok with 240v soldering irons (240v > element, no transformer) or switchmode power supplies. I would > however test these thoroughly before taking into the field. > > Just use a 1:1 transformer between the inverter and device that has issues. You'll get a clean enough wave form on the other side to correct for the issue. Also, to a couple of friends of mine having problems trying to run their auger on the wood stove via an inverter, in case power went out. I had them use a transformer, because it would trip the inverter every time the initial start on the motor would take place. This was with a inverter well capable of driving the little AC motor. Also, putting an incandescent lamp across the load helps with reactive type load devices to reduce the effects on the inverter. I don't think the cost of a 1:1 transformer for the troubled unit would cost as much or more as a sine wave inverter, as long as the device is lightly loaded. But then again, I you had a lot of devices that has problems with this, then maybe a sine wave unit is practical, price wise. |