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From: rickman on 8 Mar 2010 19:34
On Mar 8, 6:10 pm, "Pete Fraser" <pfra...(a)covad.net> wrote:
> Thankyou everybody for your help so far.
>
> I seem to be confused by the waveform viewer now.
> My typical debug cycle in Modelsim XE uses wave.do.
> I will load the sim, run wave.do to bring up the waveforms
> I'm interested in, then run the sim.
> If the waveforms point to mistakes I've made, I'll often
> want to add a few more waveforms, save the updated
> wave.do file, then re-start the sim using the new wave.do.
>
> I can't work out how to do the equivalent in Active-HDL.
> My modesim wave.do seems to work in Aldec, but I can't
> see how to save it when I've added waveforms.
> I can't even work out how to add waveforms reliably;
> sometimes dragging signals from the structure pane to an
> existing waveform viewer opens a new viewer window.
> I'm also not sure which viewer I'm using (advanced or standard),
> or how I control that. Sometimes the title bar says
> "untitled.awc", and sometimes "untitled.asdb".
>
> Help, I haven't felt this clueless in a long time.

I am told ActiveHDL will use the same .do files that Modelsim uses,
but I don't know how to automatically create them. I don't know
because I do it without a .do file. Once you open a waveform window,
you can add whatever signals to it you want by click and drag from the
structure window to the waveform window. Once you run your simulation
and quit the program it will ask if you want to save the waveform
window. If you say yes, it will save it with all the signals added and
when you bring up this project again those signals will be there.
This saves the signal names as well as the waveform in an .aws file.
If you want to save disk space, you can erase the waveform before
saving it.

I've never had a new window open up from dragging a signal from the
structures pane to the waveform pane. The title bar of my versions
shows the path of the waveform as an .aws file. I'm not sure what the
purpose of the .awf is compared to the .aws file.

Rick
From: Andy Peters on 9 Mar 2010 14:13
On Mar 8, 4:10 pm, "Pete Fraser" <pfra...(a)covad.net> wrote:
> Thankyou everybody for your help so far.
>
> I seem to be confused by the waveform viewer now.
> My typical debug cycle in Modelsim XE uses wave.do.
> I will load the sim, run wave.do to bring up the waveforms
> I'm interested in, then run the sim.
> If the waveforms point to mistakes I've made, I'll often
> want to add a few more waveforms, save the updated
> wave.do file, then re-start the sim using the new wave.do.
>
> I can't work out how to do the equivalent in Active-HDL.
> My modesim wave.do seems to work in Aldec, but I can't
> see how to save it when I've added waveforms.
> I can't even work out how to add waveforms reliably;
> sometimes dragging signals from the structure pane to an
> existing waveform viewer opens a new viewer window.
> I'm also not sure which viewer I'm using (advanced or standard),
> or how I control that. Sometimes the title bar says
> "untitled.awc", and sometimes "untitled.asdb".
>
> Help, I haven't felt this clueless in a long time.

I had a conversation with Aldec support yesterday about this very
topic.

And I agree -- it's very confusing.

There are two things involved with waveform display:

a) The .asdb is the waveform data database (sorry for the redundancy).
This is a compressed binary that holds all transactions on all signals
in the design (not just what is displayed).

b) The .awc is the "accelerated waveform configuration" file. This is
what the GUI needs to display data in the associated .asdb.

BUT! The above files are really only so you can save a copy of a
simulation run and display it later without re-running the simulation.

What you REALLY want is to do is this. The first time you run your
simulation (after Initialize Simulation), you create a new waveform
window (which will then show the "untitled.awc" in the title bar), and
drag all of the signals of interest into that window.

To save this list of signals for future simulation runs, from the
Waveform window's menu, choose "Waveform -> Save To Macro." This is
akin to the ModelSim menu item "Save Format As ..." and it will create
a macro file with the extension .do and it will be stored, by default,
in the src directory. It will also appear in the current Design in the
Workspace. Once you've created the file, for future simulation runs,
you can right-click on the macro file name in the Design and choose
"Execute" and it will repopulate the waveform display window with your
desired signals.

What this means is that unless you really need to save the simulation
waveforms, you can shitcan both the .asdb and .awc files. All you need
is the macro .do file.

-a
From: rickman on 9 Mar 2010 15:11
On Mar 9, 2:13 pm, Andy Peters <goo...(a)latke.net> wrote:
> On Mar 8, 4:10 pm, "Pete Fraser" <pfra...(a)covad.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thankyou everybody for your help so far.
>
> > I seem to be confused by the waveform viewer now.
> > My typical debug cycle in Modelsim XE uses wave.do.
> > I will load the sim, run wave.do to bring up the waveforms
> > I'm interested in, then run the sim.
> > If the waveforms point to mistakes I've made, I'll often
> > want to add a few more waveforms, save the updated
> > wave.do file, then re-start the sim using the new wave.do.
>
> > I can't work out how to do the equivalent in Active-HDL.
> > My modesim wave.do seems to work in Aldec, but I can't
> > see how to save it when I've added waveforms.
> > I can't even work out how to add waveforms reliably;
> > sometimes dragging signals from the structure pane to an
> > existing waveform viewer opens a new viewer window.
> > I'm also not sure which viewer I'm using (advanced or standard),
> > or how I control that. Sometimes the title bar says
> > "untitled.awc", and sometimes "untitled.asdb".
>
> > Help, I haven't felt this clueless in a long time.
>
> I had a conversation with Aldec support yesterday about this very
> topic.
>
> And I agree -- it's very confusing.
>
> There are two things involved with waveform display:
>
> a) The .asdb is the waveform data database (sorry for the redundancy).
> This is a compressed binary that holds all transactions on all signals
> in the design (not just what is displayed).

WHAT???!!! Is this saying that all of the signals are there and I
should be able to display a new signal without rerunning the
simulation??? I only see .aws and .adf files, no .asdb file. Do I
have to turn a switch to get the .asdb file so I can look at what I
want after the simulation is complete?


> b) The .awc is the "accelerated waveform configuration" file. This is
> what the GUI needs to display data in the associated .asdb.
>
> BUT! The above files are really only so you can save a copy of a
> simulation run and display it later without re-running the simulation.

Well, yeah, in essence that's what I'd like to do.


> What you REALLY want is to do is this. The first time you run your
> simulation (after Initialize Simulation), you create a new waveform
> window (which will then show the "untitled.awc" in the title bar), and
> drag all of the signals of interest into that window.

Yes, go on!


> To save this list of signals for future simulation runs, from the
> Waveform window's menu, choose "Waveform -> Save To Macro." This is
> akin to the ModelSim menu item "Save Format As ..." and it will create
> a macro file with the extension .do and it will be stored, by default,
> in the src directory. It will also appear in the current Design in the
> Workspace. Once you've created the file, for future simulation runs,
> you can right-click on the macro file name in the Design and choose
> "Execute" and it will repopulate the waveform display window with your
> desired signals.
>
> What this means is that unless you really need to save the simulation
> waveforms, you can shitcan both the .asdb and .awc files. All you need
> is the macro .do file.

Ok, but when I'm debugging, I often need to look at intermediate
signals to see where the problem is coming from. It would be great to
not have to rerun the simulation to do that. There is more than once
that I added some signals only to find that the problem took a
slightly different curve than the one I expected and I have to add
more signals. In the end I may have to run the simulation 10 or more
times before I see the problem. Even at 1 minute each, that can waste
a lot of time if there is an easy way to avoid it.

So how do I get the .asdb and .awc files?

Rick
From: Magne Munkejord on 10 Mar 2010 03:03
rickman wrote:
> On Mar 9, 2:13 pm, Andy Peters <goo...(a)latke.net> wrote:
>> On Mar 8, 4:10 pm, "Pete Fraser" <pfra...(a)covad.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Thankyou everybody for your help so far.
>>> I seem to be confused by the waveform viewer now.
>>> My typical debug cycle in Modelsim XE uses wave.do.
>>> I will load the sim, run wave.do to bring up the waveforms
>>> I'm interested in, then run the sim.
>>> If the waveforms point to mistakes I've made, I'll often
>>> want to add a few more waveforms, save the updated
>>> wave.do file, then re-start the sim using the new wave.do.
>>> I can't work out how to do the equivalent in Active-HDL.
>>> My modesim wave.do seems to work in Aldec, but I can't
>>> see how to save it when I've added waveforms.
>>> I can't even work out how to add waveforms reliably;
>>> sometimes dragging signals from the structure pane to an
>>> existing waveform viewer opens a new viewer window.
>>> I'm also not sure which viewer I'm using (advanced or standard),
>>> or how I control that. Sometimes the title bar says
>>> "untitled.awc", and sometimes "untitled.asdb".
>>> Help, I haven't felt this clueless in a long time.
>> I had a conversation with Aldec support yesterday about this very
>> topic.
>>
>> And I agree -- it's very confusing.
>>
>> There are two things involved with waveform display:
>>
>> a) The .asdb is the waveform data database (sorry for the redundancy).
>> This is a compressed binary that holds all transactions on all signals
>> in the design (not just what is displayed).
>
> WHAT???!!! Is this saying that all of the signals are there and I
> should be able to display a new signal without rerunning the
> simulation??? I only see .aws and .adf files, no .asdb file. Do I
> have to turn a switch to get the .asdb file so I can look at what I
> want after the simulation is complete?
>
>
>> b) The .awc is the "accelerated waveform configuration" file. This is
>> what the GUI needs to display data in the associated .asdb.
>>
>> BUT! The above files are really only so you can save a copy of a
>> simulation run and display it later without re-running the simulation.
>
> Well, yeah, in essence that's what I'd like to do.
>
>
>> What you REALLY want is to do is this. The first time you run your
>> simulation (after Initialize Simulation), you create a new waveform
>> window (which will then show the "untitled.awc" in the title bar), and
>> drag all of the signals of interest into that window.
>
> Yes, go on!
>
>
>> To save this list of signals for future simulation runs, from the
>> Waveform window's menu, choose "Waveform -> Save To Macro." This is
>> akin to the ModelSim menu item "Save Format As ..." and it will create
>> a macro file with the extension .do and it will be stored, by default,
>> in the src directory. It will also appear in the current Design in the
>> Workspace. Once you've created the file, for future simulation runs,
>> you can right-click on the macro file name in the Design and choose
>> "Execute" and it will repopulate the waveform display window with your
>> desired signals.
>>
>> What this means is that unless you really need to save the simulation
>> waveforms, you can shitcan both the .asdb and .awc files. All you need
>> is the macro .do file.
>
> Ok, but when I'm debugging, I often need to look at intermediate
> signals to see where the problem is coming from. It would be great to
> not have to rerun the simulation to do that. There is more than once
> that I added some signals only to find that the problem took a
> slightly different curve than the one I expected and I have to add
> more signals. In the end I may have to run the simulation 10 or more
> times before I see the problem. Even at 1 minute each, that can waste
> a lot of time if there is an easy way to avoid it.
>
> So how do I get the .asdb and .awc files?
>
> Rick

It has been some time since I used ActiveHDL. From what I can remember
you must switch to what is called "accelerated waveform". (I assume you
are using standard.) I think this was a preference setting for the
program itself.
The accelerated waveform has a slightly different look, and you can't
use it generate stimuli.

Magne
From: Magne Munkejord on 10 Mar 2010 03:23
Magne Munkejord wrote:
> rickman wrote:
>> On Mar 9, 2:13 pm, Andy Peters <goo...(a)latke.net> wrote:
>>> On Mar 8, 4:10 pm, "Pete Fraser" <pfra...(a)covad.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thankyou everybody for your help so far.
>>>> I seem to be confused by the waveform viewer now.
>>>> My typical debug cycle in Modelsim XE uses wave.do.
>>>> I will load the sim, run wave.do to bring up the waveforms
>>>> I'm interested in, then run the sim.
>>>> If the waveforms point to mistakes I've made, I'll often
>>>> want to add a few more waveforms, save the updated
>>>> wave.do file, then re-start the sim using the new wave.do.
>>>> I can't work out how to do the equivalent in Active-HDL.
>>>> My modesim wave.do seems to work in Aldec, but I can't
>>>> see how to save it when I've added waveforms.
>>>> I can't even work out how to add waveforms reliably;
>>>> sometimes dragging signals from the structure pane to an
>>>> existing waveform viewer opens a new viewer window.
>>>> I'm also not sure which viewer I'm using (advanced or standard),
>>>> or how I control that. Sometimes the title bar says
>>>> "untitled.awc", and sometimes "untitled.asdb".
>>>> Help, I haven't felt this clueless in a long time.
>>> I had a conversation with Aldec support yesterday about this very
>>> topic.
>>>
>>> And I agree -- it's very confusing.
>>>
>>> There are two things involved with waveform display:
>>>
>>> a) The .asdb is the waveform data database (sorry for the redundancy).
>>> This is a compressed binary that holds all transactions on all signals
>>> in the design (not just what is displayed).
>>
>> WHAT???!!! Is this saying that all of the signals are there and I
>> should be able to display a new signal without rerunning the
>> simulation??? I only see .aws and .adf files, no .asdb file. Do I
>> have to turn a switch to get the .asdb file so I can look at what I
>> want after the simulation is complete?
>>
>>
>>> b) The .awc is the "accelerated waveform configuration" file. This is
>>> what the GUI needs to display data in the associated .asdb.
>>>
>>> BUT! The above files are really only so you can save a copy of a
>>> simulation run and display it later without re-running the simulation.
>>
>> Well, yeah, in essence that's what I'd like to do.
>>
>>
>>> What you REALLY want is to do is this. The first time you run your
>>> simulation (after Initialize Simulation), you create a new waveform
>>> window (which will then show the "untitled.awc" in the title bar), and
>>> drag all of the signals of interest into that window.
>>
>> Yes, go on!
>>
>>
>>> To save this list of signals for future simulation runs, from the
>>> Waveform window's menu, choose "Waveform -> Save To Macro." This is
>>> akin to the ModelSim menu item "Save Format As ..." and it will create
>>> a macro file with the extension .do and it will be stored, by default,
>>> in the src directory. It will also appear in the current Design in the
>>> Workspace. Once you've created the file, for future simulation runs,
>>> you can right-click on the macro file name in the Design and choose
>>> "Execute" and it will repopulate the waveform display window with your
>>> desired signals.
>>>
>>> What this means is that unless you really need to save the simulation
>>> waveforms, you can shitcan both the .asdb and .awc files. All you need
>>> is the macro .do file.
>>
>> Ok, but when I'm debugging, I often need to look at intermediate
>> signals to see where the problem is coming from. It would be great to
>> not have to rerun the simulation to do that. There is more than once
>> that I added some signals only to find that the problem took a
>> slightly different curve than the one I expected and I have to add
>> more signals. In the end I may have to run the simulation 10 or more
>> times before I see the problem. Even at 1 minute each, that can waste
>> a lot of time if there is an easy way to avoid it.
>>
>> So how do I get the .asdb and .awc files?
>>
>> Rick
>
> It has been some time since I used ActiveHDL. From what I can remember
> you must switch to what is called "accelerated waveform". (I assume you
> are using standard.) I think this was a preference setting for the
> program itself.
> The accelerated waveform has a slightly different look, and you can't
> use it generate stimuli.
>
> Magne

Aldec appnote on using accelerated waveform :
http://support.aldec.com/KnowledgeBase/Article.aspx?aid=000724
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