Too old for an iPod?
in [UK Mac]
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From: T i m on 8 Mar 2010 11:35 On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 15:57:56 +0000, Geoff Berrow <blthecat(a)ckdog.co.uk> wrote: >>you would think he'd >>like to play with a camera, being a photographer etc). > >I've always been involved in photography and was very reluctant to get >involved in digital. The main reason I love it was because I wasn't a photographer. I was into electronics / computers / datacomms and loads of other 'stuff' and the ability to take and move a picture of something (often mechanical / reference) to anyone or to be able to print it out there and then was the appeal. In spite of only taking reference and the odd holiday shot I think Id taken more pictures within the first week of owning a digital than I ever had with a film camera (and I had worked for Kodak for a year)! ;-) > With a film camera, the tech didn't matter so >much, it was pretty much down to the lens and a 1960s Rolleiflex will >still deliver stunning results. Dad sold his baby Rolle and bought a small cabin cruiser with the money. Another thing that frustrates *us* (the family) is their front bedroom is still set out as a photographic studio and Mum desperately needs some space to put her things. Dad hasn't touched a camera for about 20 years? > >When I eventually got a decent digital SLR I had a hard time for a >while because I tried to adapt to it, rather than it adapting to me. >When I realised that I could use all my old skills just the same with >the new camera, all was fine. I suppose with Dad it was all about the subject (often family portraits) and the quality of the output. For me it was just about the content and convenience. > >> >>>and iPhone. >> >><Hmm mutter mumble I'll stick with my 6310i ta> ;-) > >And you complain that your father is stuck in the past!! How may weeks between charges on your given to you free and cost �20 / 3 - 4 months payg iPhone ... and does it get a signal where many other phones can't ... and has it never locked up / rebooted on you .... and can you lay on it under a car and know it's going to survive ....? *That* is why *I* don't want to go backwards and get an iPhone! ;-) > >> >>> Hope I'm >>>still the same when I'm in my 80s! >> >>I think if it's in you then it will always be in you. Mum never worked >>in an office and Dad or I were always around to do the technical stuff >>so she never bothered to learn. Now when you present her with anything >>'technical', AND she hasn't actually requested it herself she goes all >>'no, it's too confusing'. > >My wife is like that and she's only 46... <grin> Hmm, well I guess she's probably the last of 'that generation' then, or maybe to do with her lack of interest or need? How many families do you know where the kids are more technically aware than their parents? Luckily I was always interested in science, space, computers, engines and doing practical / technical stuff so with that can generally deal with any new stuff that comes along. The Mrs tells me something is broken and it's just assumes I can fix it. She also asks me questions and assumes I'd know the answer. However, she also asks questions where I'm sure she already knows the answer ... like "did you realise it was our anniversary / my birthday yesterday?". Why would I know that and does she think it would have made any difference if I had? ;-) > > <snip> >>When he goes (and we pray that he goes before her) I think Mum will >>start to live again and maybe allow her to help us help her (without >>worrying what 'Father might think').[1] > >Just be there for them. It's all you can do without driving yourself >nuts. Well thanks <again>, wise words etc, it's just frustrating when you try to do something that is a fair bet *will* actually make their lives easier / better and they don't let you. Oh well, at least it seems I'm good for explaining how to use a cassette recorder ... ironically the PC / iTunes / iPod would have done it all automatically! Cheers, T i m
From: Rowland McDonnell on 8 Mar 2010 11:53 Geoff Berrow <blthecat(a)ckdog.co.uk> wrote: [snip] > Modern technology is great for us; we can see the benefits and make > the effort to learn. `Us' meaning the technical elite - which these days, excludes me. :-( I say that because it's not possible for most people to learn how to use all the fancy new PC tech - it's all very exclusive stuff. > It's a lot harder for older people. [snip] It's a lot harder for anyone who's not part of the in-crowd, the folks who don't get it and can't get it. Age has little to do with it - it's all about the ability to get information out of the terribly inaccessible user documentation that one has access to. The oldest programmer I knew learnt about computers in his 60s, and died doing software development in his 80s. They found him with his laptop, in bed - the laptop being a terminal for the `big' server in his work-room. All set up which he was in his 70s, that rig. He got it - back in the 1980s. He found it *easy* to do so. It's much harder for anyone to learn these days. It seems to me that the only people who can use modern computers properly are those who are also programmers - the rest of us seem to be excluded from the information needed to learn how to use modern software effectively. Rowland. -- Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell(a)dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking
From: Peter Ceresole on 8 Mar 2010 12:06 T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: > > Likewise my satnav > > Oh, 100%. I had one of those (and a digital camera) before they were > 'common' and I wouldn't be without either again. Now Dad was a > semi-Pro photographer but when the world went digital he bailed out. > Strangely though he still keeps up with what's going on via the mags. As you do... I retired properly ten years ago, at 60; until then I could direct, and to a certain extent use, a Digbeta camera (large beasts that they were) and use a professional Avid setup (again up to a point, but a decent cut is a decent cut is a decent cut...). I could make programmes which were competent enough for people to ask me back to make more. But (and I suspect that this applies to a fair number of people) I no longer have the energy to do that stuff. Not just that I wouldn't want to, which I don't; been there, done that, got the neuroses; but I really wouldn't have the mental puff. This applies to computers too; on the CPC6128 I had all kinds of Basic loaders and .sub files which set up programs and put up graphics (that I drew) for the intro; later I had longish .bat files to configure stuff in MSDOS. Now, on the Mac, I love it because I don't need that stuff any more. The nearest I get to programing (near /= close) is Keyboard Maestro, because it makes my life easier and reduces *even more* any thought I have to devote to using my Macs. It really is all a question of energy. In 10 years I've noticed the drop. Everybody does. It barely seems possible when you're 50, but it happens. It's not horrible, just a fact [1]. And your dad will simply prefer stuff he knows because however steam and brass it is, it's just easier to grasp. I know I do... [1] And as the policemen get younger, the women really do get more beautiful every day. -- Peter
From: Rowland McDonnell on 8 Mar 2010 12:10 T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: > Geoff Berrow [snip] > >I manage things by keeping them as simple as possible. > > I've tried the 'when it all goes weird, turn it off and on again' but > maybe I need to write it down and have pictures etc. Yes. Written down, *CONCISELY*. That means `brief but complete'. Both bits are important - get all the bits down that he needs, and nothing but that what he needs. > > She manages by > >having routines and relying on stuff she has known for years. Older > >people struggle with short term memory stuff. > > Understood. Pfft - not half as much as people think. A lot of it's `I can't be bothered to make the effort' but they'd be fine if they did (and they'd live longer and happier lives). > >Modern technology is great for us; we can see the benefits and make > >the effort to learn. It's a lot harder for older people. > > Yet some seem able to cope ok? I'm not saying you are wring of course, > just I think it's more than memory, ability or familiarity. Yes - there's trust as well. Why should he trust this fancy whizzy new gadget? Or for that matter make the effort to learn how to use this fancy new gadget when there's no certainty it'll work reliably? Especially when it's so awkward to use? > > Your dad > >knows cassettes inside out, > > (but not their controls it would seem) ;-) He knows the controls, but that does not mean he's learnt the stupid meaningless symbols used to identify the controls. [snip] > > He doesn't > >have to juggle fiddly devices, chargers and leads > > There is that I guess (although the iPod is pretty easy going that > way). The iPod is anything but, I promise you. The controls are a nightmare for me and I'm a 43 year old technical type. > >and make the > >conceptual leap that this small device represents 20 albums. > > But that's the thing. Say I go round there and rip and synch another 5 > CD's, when I hand him back the iPod he seems willing / able to find / > test the new material? He (as mentioned previously) even looked for a > particular tack and found and played it so I know he *can* do it. But can he recall how to do it when you go? Can he add stuff himself? I suspect he needs a key, a guide written for him to help - so when you're not there, he's got his manual to hand. If I want a reference for any modern software to tell me how to use it, I write it myself. Yes, I have lots of brief cheat-sheets for this and that, telling me the snippets that I had to work out the hard way and can't work out from the manual or UI. Stick it on card, shove it in with the iPod (and/or PC/Mac). [snip] > >and enjoy the fact > >that you still have a dad. > > Ah. Now that's a difficult one. I mean, we get on ok and believe we > would do anything within our power to help each other, but 'enjoy each > other', not sure that's ever been the case. Now my Uncle was a real > friend and is still sorely missed and my Mum, well, a lad only has one > Mum. Yes indeed and that's why some of us are very glad that a single move of 200 miles away in any direction can solve many of the problems that are associated with that one mum for that one lad. Rowland. -- Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell(a)dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking
From: Geoff Berrow on 8 Mar 2010 12:27
On Mon, 8 Mar 2010 17:06:29 +0000, peter(a)cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) wrote: >It really is all a question of energy. In 10 years I've noticed the >drop. Everybody does. It barely seems possible when you're 50, but it >happens. It's not horrible, just a fact Well I've been knocking out a bit of PHP for a while now and at 58 I'm starting to wonder if I have the energy to chase the web development any longer. Busking is starting to have a certain appeal... Incidentally I was also involved in video, though industrial, not broadcast. U-matics and linear editing etc. I'd have loved to have gotten my hands on a digital suite but had moved on to other things by the time non linear suites became de rigueur -- Geoff Berrow (Put thecat out to email) It's only Usenet, no one dies. My opinions, not the committee's, mine. Simple RFDs www.4theweb.co.uk/rfdmaker |