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From: Nuno Magalhães on 11 Apr 2010 07:40
On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 11:49, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> That is exactly what I do! However, I use a Debian derivative as it
> has slightly better hardware support out of the box and more
> up-to-date packages than straight Debian. That is exactly what this
> thread is about.

For personal use i prefer Debian, i really dislike the sudo approach
and all the pampering (as dislike big desktop environments regardless
of my über hardware). Wanting to look under the hood is why i tried
Linux in the first place (some old redhat i didn't like).

Distros like Ubuntu are good in that they are much more end-user
friendly and are good advertising tools - provided the issues Andrei
Popescu mentioned are dealt with; as people already stated, end-users
don't care about open source or GPL or the evil Mr Gates, they want
stuff that Just Works™. As long as the user is willing to tolerate a
slight aesthetic change, it's a go. However, the more these distros
become "windows-ised" the more i get this eerie feeling i can't quite
name, maybe history repeating?

My 2¢

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From: Nuno Magalhães on 11 Apr 2010 07:50
On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 12:29, godo <goran(a)dobosevic.com> wrote:
>
>> Sure, but first you have to take care at least of these issues:
>>
>> * proprietary drivers (if applicable and/or needed)
>> * multimedia stuff (add debian-multimedia repos)
>> * backports for:
>>  - wicd or network-manager (if applicable, especially since
>> network-manager in lenny is too old)
>>  - flashplugin-nonfree
>>  - newer apps if needed (OOo, ...)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrei
>
> Of course but it is necessary step with Windows or any other OS also. But
> after that anybody can update with Synaptic.

No. In windows this is 100% transparent to the user, since all the
hardware vendors provide all the drivers. Seldom does a winuser have
to do any hardware config or so much as use the installation CD.
Windows update will do it for them. (Correct me if i'm wrong but
didn't Red Hat some 10years ago have a tray icon for updates like XP
now does?)

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From: Dotan Cohen on 11 Apr 2010 12:40
>> I use a Debian derivative as it
>> has slightly better hardware support out of the box and more
>> up-to-date packages than straight Debian. That is exactly what this
>> thread is about.
>
> No, that is not what this thread is about.  I am the OP of this
> derivative of the thread
> "[OT] Ubuntu vs Debian forums (was recompiling the kernel with a
> different version name" and *I* decide what this thread is about.
> Please don't hijack my thread.
> If you want to start a thread that says Ubuntu is better than Debian,
> then go over to the *Ubuntu* forum and start one.  This is *my* thread,
> and I clearly stated the topic in my original post.
>

Sorry for stepping on your toes there, buddy. You can have your thread
back, I did not intend to misinterpret, hijack, or declare Foo better
than Bar.


> I acknowledge that there are people in this world who don't want to
> know the details of how to administer a computer OS.  In fact, that
> probably describes the majority of desktop users.  I'm not condemning
> them.  If they have problems, they can ask a personal friend who is
> willing to help them, or they can get a paid support contract.  But
> this forum is not for them.  This forum is for *Debian* users who
> *do* want to know how their system works and are *willing* to work at
> it *and* help others.  It is not for Ubuntu users who don't know enough
> about their system to administer it, can't get adequate help from their
> fellow Ubuntu users on their own forum, and are too cheap to get a paid
> Ubuntu support contract.
>
> If you want to run Ubuntu, then run Ubuntu.  The choice is yours.  But
> don't come over here if you have problems.  Get help on the Ubuntu
> forum, ask a friend who also runs Ubuntu, or buy an Ubuntu support contract.
> *That's* what this thread is about!  This forum is, to paraphrase Abraham
> Lincoln,
>

I'm a Debian user, helping other users. I ask on the Ubuntu list when
appropriate and I ask on the Debian list when appropriate. Other than
this pointless thread, I do not post such off topic nonsense and
everything I ask here is applicable to Debian. I do not ask about the
Ubuntu installer or wallpaper.


>  ... A forum *of* the Debian users *by* the Debian users *for*
>  the Debian users.
>

Thank you, that's me.


> You're welcome to search our archives.

Thanks for being so generous. I thoroughly abuse those archives, don't
worry. I post only when my question is not answered there.


> But don't post here unless you
> run Debian, want to know how your system works, and are willing to help
> others as well as yourself.

If you haven't noticed, exactly what I am doing is learning how Debian
systems work in order to help others.


> I'm not trying to be unkind.  I have nothing
> against you personally.

I know, you did not attack me personally. I'm not sensitive, don't
worry! Some idiot on the kde-usability list did attack me personally
just yesterday, and I simply asked "why the personal attack" but in
this case I understand that your frustration is aimed at Ubuntards
dragging down the Debian list, not Dotan Cohen.


> But it is not fair for you to run another OS and
> then come over here asking for free help.

I disagree that I am:
1) running another OS
-or-
2) coming over here asking for free help

I ask Debian-related questions, and make an effort to learn. I then
apply that knowledge to help users of a Debian-based distro. I'm not
the one ruining your list, I promise.


> This is not a forum for users
> of all 250+ Debian-derived distributions.  This is a *Debian* forum.
> Period.
>

I therefore ask only Debian-related questions, and even then only
after extensively searching tfa and stfw. Where I apply that knowledge
is irrelevant.


--
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.


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From: Javier Barroso on 11 Apr 2010 18:10
> You're welcome to search our archives.  But don't post here unless you
> run Debian, want to know how your system works, and are willing to help
> others as well as yourself.  I'm not trying to be unkind.  I have nothing
> against you personally.  But it is not fair for you to run another OS and
> then come over here asking for free help.  This is not a forum for users
> of all 250+ Debian-derived distributions.  This is a *Debian* forum.
> Period.
Could be a good idea creating a "Debian and derivated distributions"
list where all .deb related questions where welcome ?

-- :set joke on --
We are here, because we are escaping from rpm hell, aren't we ! :P :P
-- :set joke off --

Regards,


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