What is the best way to process this list
in [Lisp]
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From: Madhu on 9 Jan 2010 04:32 * Ron Garret <rNOSPAMon-82E72C.00290109012010(a)news.albasani.net> : Wrote on Sat, 09 Jan 2010 00:29:31 -0800: | In article <m3wrzs2ful.fsf(a)moon.robolove.meer.net>, | Madhu <enometh(a)meer.net> wrote: | |> * Ron Garret <rNOSPAMon-442AE5.11064408012010(a)news.albasani.net> : |> Wrote on Fri, 08 Jan 2010 11:07:14 -0800: |> |> |> Insults like "idiot" are rude, when the target is indeed a retard. |> |> | ROTFLMFAO! |> |> You dont make a point, | [xnip] | How fortunate then that I have you to make them for me. No. <context readded> Here was my full sentence before you snipped it. |> You dont make a point, So I'll go out on a limb and assume your |> amusement indicates you have not understood my point at all. You should understand that the points I made, which you snipped out are not yours. They explain why I wrote the line of mine you quote above before you expressed amusement, which is MY POINT. I have no idea what your point was, or is. |> First off it is entirely alien to my nature to insult anyone |> gratuituously, or for the sake of amusement, or just to be rude. The |> only reason for me insulting anyone should be to bring to attention a |> correctible defect on the part of the insultee. |> |> Now If I were to call you into account for your response and say "You |> are a lamer" --- I am characterizing an aspect of your behaviour that |> you had control over, STILL you chose to behave in a way I consider less |> than appropriate. The idea behind my "insult" is you should have known |> better --- you have two legs but behave like a one legged man. Now use |> both legs! |> |> OTOH if you have only one leg, and I call you "a lamer", it may be |> literally accurate. Intended as an insult intended to correct it is |> teribly rude, because its not like you can help it. I cannot expect you |> to use both legs when you have only one. |> |> BTW The only reason I resorted to insults to Matt-the-surnameless was |> that I thought he was trolling for it (he wanted me to respond to his |> insults with insults in the last thread he was defending another of your |> indefensible positions), and I thought if I gave him what he wanted he |> would shut up. -- Madhu
From: Ron Garret on 9 Jan 2010 05:18 In article <m3ljg7hbda.fsf(a)moon.robolove.meer.net>, Madhu <enometh(a)meer.net> wrote: > I have no idea Yes, that is quite clear. rg
From: Nicolas Neuss on 9 Jan 2010 06:04 Ron Garret <rNOSPAMon(a)flownet.com> writes: > Erik Naggum was the leading (or at least the most visible) proponent > of this point of view. I believe Kenny Tilton subscribes to it. And > I would say that even your comment that "CL is a language for everyone > with good taste" is a minor variation on this theme, which is "Lisp is > a language for people with characteristic X" where X is a > characteristic that is both desirable and subjective. Whether X is > "an expert" or "with good taste" or "cool" or whatever, it allows one > to apply the no-true-scotsman fallacy to any criticism of the > language: all negative views can be dismissed because the critic is > obviously not an expert/has bad taste/not cool, etc. OK, you caught me here. What I think I would subscribe to is that someone loving Lisp will probably have "a good taste"[*], but not that everyone with good taste will program in Lisp. Nicolas [*] Hmm, what does this phrase mean at all? Maybe only so much that I myself would be interested in this person.
From: Tamas K Papp on 9 Jan 2010 06:06 On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 02:18:27 -0800, Ron Garret wrote: > In article <m3ljg7hbda.fsf(a)moon.robolove.meer.net>, > Madhu <enometh(a)meer.net> wrote: > >> I have no idea > > Yes, that is quite clear. Yes. But the real puzzle is that somehow, he still manages to engage intelligent people in endless conversations. Beats me why you guys pay attention to him: to people who have witnessed these threads, it is clear what he is. [1] It is also clear that he will never realize or admit it. Thus nothing is gained from replying to him, but these threads paint a sad picture about c.l.l to casual readers and newbies. Tamas [1] http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html
From: Nicolas Neuss on 9 Jan 2010 06:15
Duane Rettig <duane(a)franz.com> writes: >> > 1. CL is a language for everyone with good taste. > > What about all of the CL users that don't have good taste? > > :-) > >> > 2. It does cater to beginners at least as much as the very popular >> > � �languages C or Java, and surely much more than C++. �(Also the >> > � �difference in accessibility to Scheme or Python is not large, IMO.) > > This depends very much on what group of beginners you're talking > about. Lisp in general is not forgiving of anyone who approaches it > from a background of preconceptions about what constitutes a > programming language (preconceptions that are usually gained from > learning and perhaps even becoming an expert in other languages). For > this group of Lisp beginners, it requires a suspension of knowledge, > or even an un-learning, in order to learn Lisp as it was meant to be > learned. It all boils down to what is "good taste" which is a very subjective phrase (which I should have avoided from the beginning). I would argue that in my book people disdaining Lisp and also people who cannot work around the preconceptions you describe above do not have "good taste". Nicolas |