Why Pendulum as a clock do not shows, what General Theory of Relativity predicts?
in [Relativity]
|
From: Tom Roberts on 29 Nov 2009 11:09 Enes wrote: > Read, try to understad and count: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation > " Clocks which are far from massive bodies (or at higher gravitational > potentials) run faster, and clocks close to > massive bodies (or at lower gravitational potentials) run > slower." > > It is not true, becouse: > Pendulum clocks which are far from masisive bodies run slower, > and pendulum clocks close to massive bodies run faster." You are wrong. You are considering a pendulum, not a "pendulum clock". As I said before, a "pendulum clock" INCLUDES THE EARTH. Tom Roberts
From: Tom Roberts on 29 Nov 2009 11:12 Enes wrote: > But we have to add next principle (third) to Special Theory of > relativity: > "Don't use a pendulum clock to measure time" No. You keep confusing a pendulum with a "pendulum clock". One cannot reasonably use a pendulum to measure time, and no "third principle" is needed. Remember that a "pendulum clock" INCLUDES THE EARTH. Tom Roberts
From: Enes on 29 Nov 2009 12:10 On 29 Lis, 17:00, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_q> wrote: > "Enes" <pies_na_teo...(a)vp.pl> wrote in message > > news:931cc985-97cc-473b-8e6a-19e00fb91944(a)a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com... > On 29 Lis, 01:37, Jerry <Cephalobus_alie...(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > > > > On Nov 28, 2:05 am, Enes <pies_na_teo...(a)vp.pl> wrote: > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum > > > > You can see and hear as it works: > > > tik...tak, tik..tak, tik..tak (in polish !) > > > > When there is less gravitation: > > > tiiiiik..........taaak, tiiiiik..........taaak.... > > > > The time is quite different, than GR predicts. > > > Why? > > > Pendulum clocks have a Newtonian dependence on the strength of > > gravity which is vastly greater in magnitude than the magnitude > > of the relativistic time dilation effect. > > > Newtonian mechanics tells us that the frequency of a pendulum is > > directly proportional to the square root of the strength of > > gravity, and inversely proportional to the square root of its > > length. The effects of relativistic time dilation are far, far > > tinier than this. > > > You can no more measure the effects of relativistic time dilation > > using a pendulum clock, than you can measure the weight of a > > feather using a truck scale. > > > To detect gravitational time dilation, you need to use a precise > > and accurate clock whose frequency has no Newtonian dependence on > > the strength of gravity. > > > Jerry > > Jerry, > I do not want measure time dilation using pendulum clock, but try to > show, that it runs quite vice versa using GR predictions. > > Read, try to understad and count:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation > " Clocks which are far from massive bodies (or at higher gravitational > potentials) run faster, and clocks close to > massive bodies (or at lower gravitational potentials) run > slower." > > It is not true, becouse: > Pendulum clocks which are far from masisive bodies run slower, > and pendulum clocks close to massive bodies run faster." > > Do you understand now? > > ============================================== > You will not get a stupid bigot like Tom&Jeery to understand. > What you are saying is a pendulum at low altitude where gravity > is stronger will run faster than one at high altitude where gravity > is weaker; but a clock is an oscillator with a perfect counter and > the oscillator and counter can be remote from each other. > So the first part of your thought experiment is to place an > identical pendulum on the Moon, and by means of radio > count the oscillations compared to the one on Earth. And yes, > the pendulum on the Moon runs slower. > However, this does not mean time is different on the Moon > because the Earth is an oscillator too, and you can tell the time > on the Moon by this picture: > http://copepodo.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/earthrise2008.jpg > Of course this in principle is no different to using a sundial on Earth > (you can use one on the Moon, too, it'll measure months) so Einstein > was an idiot who couldn't tell the time and his moronic disciples > are babbling cretins. There is no time, there are numbers and real motions . All those clocks do not measure time, count periodic motions only, to equal it with interesting change.
From: Enes on 29 Nov 2009 13:44 On 29 Lis, 01:10, Uncle Al <Uncle...(a)hate.spam.net> wrote: > Enes wrote: > > > On 28 Lis, 20:54, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)mchsi.com> wrote: > > > Enes wrote: > > > > > Which clock is good to measure time? > > > > Does it depends of time only and not of gravity? > > > > Use a clock (an accurate clock) where orientation does not > > > matter. Space based atomic clocks come to mind. > > > > See: Relativistic Effects on Satellite Clocks > > > http://relativity.livingreviews.org/open?pubNo=lrr-2003-1&page=node5.... > > > Let it be, that atomic clock not depends of gravity, measures time > > only. > > > How can it measures different time in different gravity? > > <http://relativity.livingreviews.org/open?pubNo=lrr-2003-1&page=node5.....> > <http://unusedcycles.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/physics-of-gps-relativis...> > Relativistic effects on orbital clocks > > -- > Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ > (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm Look at this Relativistic effects on orbital clocks: http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/1996/Vol%2028_16.pdf
From: Enes on 29 Nov 2009 15:27
On 29 Lis, 16:15, "Dono." <sa...(a)comcast.net> wrote: > On Nov 28, 12:05 am, Enes <pies_na_teo...(a)vp.pl> wrote: > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum > > > You can see and hear as it works: > > tik...tak, tik..tak, tik..tak (in polish !) > > > When there is less gravitation: > > tiiiiik..........taaak, tiiiiik..........taaak.... > > > The time is quite different, than GR predicts. > > Why? > > zimdoo-zimdoo, tommy-tommy, the fake idiot strikes again ...... Dono, try to find massive pendulum and move it close to head. Let it strikes between ox eyes, may be the ox will be able to understand, that there is no time... Can you try...? |