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From: Camaleón on 28 Apr 2010 12:20 On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:14:15 +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 09:28:23 -0400, Stephen Powell wrote: >> That is indeed strange. I have never heard of an e-mail system that >> allows e-mails out but not in. (Except for spam setups, of course!) >> He must have *some* way of receiving replies, such as viewing the >> mailing list archives via a browser. Otherwise, why would he ask a >> question to which he knows that he cannot receive replies? And if >> memory serves me correctly, this user has been repeatedly told that >> debian-user is for English only. I must therefore conclude that he is >> either (a) stupid, (b) careless, or (c) obnoxious. > > I would say it is d) "all of the above". If you understand Spanish, see > for yourself: > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/09/msg01806.html That's unfair. I would not judge a user by just one post. You must know that the Spanish list can be sometimes a bit "un-pleasant" so I even could understood that overreaction. >> And none of those alternatives speak well of him or motivate people to >> help him. > > Unfortunately, people still respond to him or even worry about > apologizing on behalf of the list if other subscribers tell him to get > lost. I think many people here is not fully aware about the technological limitations some users have to live with and treating such users as just "nuts" is quite unjust, to say the least. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.04.28.16.11.38(a)gmail.com
From: Camaleón on 28 Apr 2010 12:30 On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 11:47:27 -0400, Stephen Powell wrote: > On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 10:03:15 -0400 (EDT), Camaleón wrote: >> But I'm just guessing, true is that in the Spanish mailing list there >> are some posts coming from him, but *not* replies. > > If what you say is true, then he is wasting his time (and ours) by > posting to *any* list. Yes, I also think so. > If he can only receive e-mails from fellow Cubans, then even if there > are fellow Cubans who could help him and are subscribed to the list, > they will never receive his posts, since the list server is outside of > Cuba. In fact, no-one in Cuba could even subscribe to the list, since > they will never receive the confirmation e-mail. I think the filter can be based on the remitent address and not on where the mailing list server is located/is coming from. In fact, the only recent reply from the OP to the Spanish list was to another Cuban user holding a "*.cu" e-mail address. Coincidence? > And if they don't > have web access either, then posting to *any* list is an exercise in > futility for Cubans. Lists are black holes to Cubans. Everything goes > in, nothing comes out. Apparently he hasn't figured that out yet. No sir, not *all* Cubans are facing the same restrictions. There are many of them that can browse the web on their work places. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.04.28.16.21.18(a)gmail.com
From: Stephen Powell on 28 Apr 2010 12:40 On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 11:14:15 -0400 (EDT), Florian Kulzer wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 09:28:23 -0400, Stephen Powell wrote: >> I must therefore conclude that he is either (a) stupid, >> (b) careless, or (c) obnoxious. > > I would say it is d) "all of the above". If you understand Spanish, see > for yourself: > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/09/msg01806.html I did take two years of Spanish in high school. But that was a very long time ago, and I really haven't had occasion to use it since. Therefore, I have forgotten most of what I learned. I recognize a word here and there, but not enough to understand what he is saying. Fortunately, there are Spanish to English translation engines available on the internet. And although they don't do as good a job as a human would who is fluent in both languages, they are close enough for me to get the gist of what he is saying, in most cases. But (a) he apparently can't receive repies anyway, and (b) he is cross-posting questions in Spanish to multiple lists, most of which are non-Spanish, which is really annoying. Here is a computer translation of the above-mentioned post by cosme: It is ugly but very ugly to do cross posting. "", ah yes!! and that is pretty for him or those who said this??? I am interested in a toss what they think, to stupid words deaf ears. These lists is it to investigate, to learn or to be criticizing and to eating sh*t?? This was a reply to one of his own posts. -- .''`. Stephen Powell : :' : `. `'` `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/477649916.57367.1272472235952.JavaMail.root(a)md01.wow.synacor.com
From: Florian Kulzer on 28 Apr 2010 16:10 On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 16:11:38 +0000, Camaleón wrote: > On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:14:15 +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 09:28:23 -0400, Stephen Powell wrote: > > >> That is indeed strange. I have never heard of an e-mail system that > >> allows e-mails out but not in. (Except for spam setups, of course!) > >> He must have *some* way of receiving replies, such as viewing the > >> mailing list archives via a browser. Otherwise, why would he ask a > >> question to which he knows that he cannot receive replies? And if > >> memory serves me correctly, this user has been repeatedly told that > >> debian-user is for English only. I must therefore conclude that he is > >> either (a) stupid, (b) careless, or (c) obnoxious. > > > > I would say it is d) "all of the above". If you understand Spanish, see > > for yourself: > > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/09/msg01806.html > > That's unfair. I would not judge a user by just one post. I would say that depends on the post. In any case, I am judging this particular user on his overall posting history here on d-u, which began long before the one mail to which I linked (which is just the most drastic manifestation of his general attitude). > You must know that the Spanish list can be sometimes a bit "un-pleasant" > so I even could understood that overreaction. He did not quote any mails of others that would justify his rudeness and blatant lack of concern for the mailing list code of conduct. > >> And none of those alternatives speak well of him or motivate people to > >> help him. > > > > Unfortunately, people still respond to him or even worry about > > apologizing on behalf of the list if other subscribers tell him to get > > lost. > > I think many people here is not fully aware about the technological > limitations some users have to live with and treating such users as just > "nuts" is quite unjust, to say the least. Just and unjust is in the eye of the beholder. I was trying to make a much more straightforward point: If enough people continue to reward a certain behavior then it is likely that there will be an increase in the occurrence of this very behavior. Case in point: Our friend has just posted another Spanish message to d-u. -- Regards, | Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100428195032.GA4576(a)isar.localhost
From: Camaleón on 28 Apr 2010 17:10
On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 21:50:32 +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 16:11:38 +0000, Camaleón wrote: >> > I would say it is d) "all of the above". If you understand Spanish, >> > see for yourself: >> > >> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/09/msg01806.html >> >> That's unfair. I would not judge a user by just one post. > > I would say that depends on the post. In any case, I am judging this > particular user on his overall posting history here on d-u, which began > long before the one mail to which I linked (which is just the most > drastic manifestation of his general attitude). You cannot condemn an actitute that is not being perceived by the user. And I don't think the OP knows what is he doing. >> You must know that the Spanish list can be sometimes a bit >> "un-pleasant" so I even could understood that overreaction. > > He did not quote any mails of others that would justify his rudeness and > blatant lack of concern for the mailing list code of conduct. Yes, it is quoted, badly, but quoted. If you were a frequent user of the Spanish mailing list, you would have noticed that many of the posts are directed not to the list but to the users own e-mail address >:-) >> I think many people here is not fully aware about the technological >> limitations some users have to live with and treating such users as >> just "nuts" is quite unjust, to say the least. > > Just and unjust is in the eye of the beholder. I was trying to make a > much more straightforward point: If enough people continue to reward a > certain behavior then it is likely that there will be an increase in the > occurrence of this very behavior. Case in point: Our friend has just > posted another Spanish message to d-u. I know him from the Spanish mailing list so, as he barely replies to the people who is giving some advice, I stopped from replying to his posts some time ago ;-) Look, every time he posts to the Spanish mailing list, it duplicates the same message here. And note the *sending* time: *** Original-Received: from cronos by gecgr.co.cu (MDaemon PRO v9.0.4) with ESMTP id md50000092215.msg for <debian-user- spanish(a)lists.debian.org>; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:12:35 -0500 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *** Original-Received: from cronos by gecgr.co.cu (MDaemon PRO v9.0.4) with ESMTP id md50000092214.msg for <debian-user(a)lists.debian.org>; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:11:59 -0500 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *** There is just an interval of *35 seconds* between one mail and the other! Wow, that is *so fast* if you are sending two different messages (to one list and the other) because if you carefully review the e-mail headers, the mailing list address is displayed in "To" field, in both cases. Not "CC" nor "BCC". Anyway... who cares? Me not :-) Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.04.28.21.07.36(a)gmail.com |