From: Inertial on
"Huang" <huangxienchen(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7efef092-922d-4e10-8cc0-18160fac30ce(a)k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 15, 8:49 am, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 15, 7:49 am, Huang wrote:><<< There is (by definition) no such
>> thing as a nonexistent length. So you're just talking nonsense. >>>
>>
>> >< What Inertial is saying here is very good. He makes a good point. To
>> >advance his argument a little further....one could argue many ways.
>>
>> [1] All nonexistent things are congruent or indistinguishable because
>> nonexistence is a singularity {is a point, which has 0 volume thus is
>> purely imaginary}. So, to speak of nonexistent length is no different
>> than speaking of nonexistent apples, oranges, or bananas.
>> This would obviously be a problem if we were working with segments of
>> length which were %100 nonexistent. For example, let A exist and let B
>> be nonexistent {= 0}, and compose A and B into a single length
>> segment. If A = 0, then we are performing nonsense for all B. But also
>> note that if B = 0 then we are performing orthodox mathematics for all
>> A. >
>>
>> If B doesn't exist, then why is
>> A + B = 0 + 0 = 0 "nonsense" while
>> A + B = 4 + 0 = 4 is ok?
>
>
> Really an excellent question and Im quite surprised that someone would
> even ask.

Perhaps you shoud have asked yourself

> Clearly the case where A=0 and B is nonzero is nonsense for all B.

Nope

> The case where B=0 is just standard mathematics for all A.

Nope

> The case where A and B are both zero is a special case.

Nope

Its all just math

>> >< The composition of A and B yields a different kind of of magnitude. It
>> >is not mathematics, and it is not [{ ? }] nonsense either. It is a
>> >hybrid. And the very interesting thing is that this composition A and B
>> >can be explained or modelled using probability theory. >
>>
>> There is a HUGE difference between the "probability" that B has a
>> value of zero and the fact that "B doesn't exist". Indeed, if B
>> doesn't exist then the probability that the value of B is zero is
>> 100%.

The probability of B having any value is 0% is B does not exist

> Here's the deal. Let A = 75 and let B = 25. Compose A and B into a
> single magnitude (or length). The "conjectured" length is 100. The
> "expected" length is 75.

Nonsense. If A is 75 and B is 25, the length is 100 (conjectured or
otherwise)

> And this new conjectured length has the same
> properties as an existent segment C of length 100 which has a
> "probability of existing = 3/4".

Nonsense

> So maybe you can explain why the numbers work so nicely.

They don't . they are nonsense

>> ><If the ratio of A to B is conserved, then calculations become sensible
>> >and the results you will obtain are identical to performing standard
>> >probability theory.>
>>
>> If B doesn't exist, then B = 0.

No .. if B doesn't exist it has no value BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST

>> What is the "ratio of A to B" if A =
>> 1 or 2 or infinity or zero?
>
> There are many B which dont exist and they are all congruent because
> nonexistence is singular. When you MIX the existent with the
> nonexistent then the resulting magnitude is not purely noexistent,

You can't do anything with the non-existent BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST.

> and
> it does not behave the same way as a purely noexistent thing.

A non-existent things has no behavior BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST.

> It
> behaves differently. It is not neccesarily singular. Part of it
> exists.

Nonsense

> It is wrong to say that " If B doesn't exist, then B = 0." . This is
> not correct. B can be 1,2,3, 10, 1x10^6,

No .. it can't . it cannot have nay value BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST.

> and it is only nonexistent if
> you declare it to be so. B nonexistent does not imply that B=0.

It implies B <> 0 ... indeed it implies B <> x for all x

> The ratio of A to B is the existential potential, which is conserved.

Nonsense word soup

> Conservation forces this thing to work properly, and it does.

Its just all nonsense .. and you know it


From: mpc755 on
On Dec 13, 8:21 pm, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Wave-Particle Duality is explained. The moving particle creates a displacement wave in the substance of space. >
> > >< So - why do interference patterns disappear after you ask "which way"??
>
> >  What happened to the displacement wave ? Where did it go?
> >  Asking "which way" seems to destroy the interference pattern, and
> > therefore the waves. Why would that happen?
> >  I have an explanation, but I don't think that you read it. >
>
> >  Please post it; and do so under a new posting.  (This one is getting
> > so long that it's a nuisance to wait for the "newer" bunches of 25
> > each to get to the one(s) worth reading.)
>
> "Aether Displacement Rebuttal"
>
> mpc755 tried to explain WP Duality in terms of aether waves, but
> cannot explain what happens to the wave when we ask "which way" and
> interference patterns diasppear. Where did the wave go ?
>
> The answer to this problem is that space is neither continuous nor
> discrete, but indeterminately either one or the other. It is
> indeterminate whether it is continuous or discrete.
>
> How can that be ? Consider 2 lengths A and B. A is existent, B is
> nonexistent.
> Let A be eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> Let B be nnnnnnnnnn
>
> If you compose them into a single length, there is no way to know
> where the nnnnnnnnnn is located. It's position is indeterminate. You
> can rearrange things so that the composition of A and B is either
> continuous or discrete, and because nnnnnnnnnn is nonexistent the
> distinction between continuity and discreteness becomes trivial.
>
> We must assume that particles are composed of bent space - just like
> gravity in GR. Then, it becomes very obvious why the WP Duality is
> perfectly sensible.
>
> If one asks "which way" in a given context, then nature returns an
> answer in the format that you had requested - it is discretized. If
> you dont ask which way, then space will be forced to behave as if
> continuous and you will observe interference patterns.
>
> But the only way to make LENGTH behave that way is by composing the
> existent with the nonexistent. Length cannot be made to behave that
> way by any other means (that I am aware of).

Someone might want to discuss AD on this thread, might as well be me.

Aether is an elastic medium and does not rest when displaced. It
pushes back. When matter displaces the aether, the pressure the aether
exerts back towards the matter is gravity.

When a C-60 molecule is used in a double slit experiment, the
displacement wave the C-60 molecule creates in the aether enters and
exits multiple slits while the C-60 molecule enters and exits a single
slit.

The moving particle creates a displacement wave in the substance of
space directly in front of the path it is traveling. The particle
cannot be detected without detecting the displacement wave. Detecting
'which way' means detecting the particle. Detecting the particle means
detecting the displacement wave.

Detecting 'which way' turns the displacement wave into chop.

Detecting 'which way' destroys the displacement wave.

'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A.
EINSTEIN'
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf

"If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass
diminishes by L/c2."

The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer
exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as
aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands. The effect
this expansion has on the surrounding aether
and matter is energy.
From: Huang on
On Dec 15, 9:08 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 8:21 pm, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > Wave-Particle Duality is explained. The moving particle creates a displacement wave in the substance of space. >
> > > >< So - why do interference patterns disappear after you ask "which way"??
>
> > >  What happened to the displacement wave ? Where did it go?
> > >  Asking "which way" seems to destroy the interference pattern, and
> > > therefore the waves. Why would that happen?
> > >  I have an explanation, but I don't think that you read it. >
>
> > >  Please post it; and do so under a new posting.  (This one is getting
> > > so long that it's a nuisance to wait for the "newer" bunches of 25
> > > each to get to the one(s) worth reading.)
>
> > "Aether Displacement Rebuttal"
>
> > mpc755 tried to explain WP Duality in terms of aether waves, but
> > cannot explain what happens to the wave when we ask "which way" and
> > interference patterns diasppear. Where did the wave go ?
>
> > The answer to this problem is that space is neither continuous nor
> > discrete, but indeterminately either one or the other. It is
> > indeterminate whether it is continuous or discrete.
>
> > How can that be ? Consider 2 lengths A and B. A is existent, B is
> > nonexistent.
> > Let A be eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> > Let B be nnnnnnnnnn
>
> > If you compose them into a single length, there is no way to know
> > where the nnnnnnnnnn is located. It's position is indeterminate. You
> > can rearrange things so that the composition of A and B is either
> > continuous or discrete, and because nnnnnnnnnn is nonexistent the
> > distinction between continuity and discreteness becomes trivial.
>
> > We must assume that particles are composed of bent space - just like
> > gravity in GR. Then, it becomes very obvious why the WP Duality is
> > perfectly sensible.
>
> > If one asks "which way" in a given context, then nature returns an
> > answer in the format that you had requested - it is discretized. If
> > you dont ask which way, then space will be forced to behave as if
> > continuous and you will observe interference patterns.
>
> > But the only way to make LENGTH behave that way is by composing the
> > existent with the nonexistent. Length cannot be made to behave that
> > way by any other means (that I am aware of).
>
> Someone might want to discuss AD on this thread, might as well be me.
>
> Aether is an elastic medium and does not rest when displaced. It
> pushes back. When matter displaces the aether, the pressure the aether
> exerts back towards the matter is gravity.
>
> When a C-60 molecule is used in a double slit experiment, the
> displacement wave the C-60 molecule creates in the aether enters and
> exits multiple slits while the C-60 molecule enters and exits a single
> slit.
>
> The moving particle creates a displacement wave in the substance of
> space directly in front of the path it is traveling. The particle
> cannot be detected without detecting the displacement wave. Detecting
> 'which way' means detecting the particle. Detecting the particle means
> detecting the displacement wave.
>
> Detecting 'which way' turns the displacement wave into chop.
>
> Detecting 'which way' destroys the displacement wave.
>
> 'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A.
> EINSTEIN'http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf
>
> "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass
> diminishes by L/c2."
>
> The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer
> exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as
> aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands. The effect
> this expansion has on the surrounding aether
> and matter is energy.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



OK - I will play. Please explain what this means:

> Detecting 'which way' turns the displacement wave into chop.

What is a chop ?

From: mpc755 on
On Dec 15, 10:29 pm, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 15, 9:08 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 13, 8:21 pm, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Wave-Particle Duality is explained. The moving particle creates a displacement wave in the substance of space. >
> > > > >< So - why do interference patterns disappear after you ask "which way"??
>
> > > >  What happened to the displacement wave ? Where did it go?
> > > >  Asking "which way" seems to destroy the interference pattern, and
> > > > therefore the waves. Why would that happen?
> > > >  I have an explanation, but I don't think that you read it. >
>
> > > >  Please post it; and do so under a new posting.  (This one is getting
> > > > so long that it's a nuisance to wait for the "newer" bunches of 25
> > > > each to get to the one(s) worth reading.)
>
> > > "Aether Displacement Rebuttal"
>
> > > mpc755 tried to explain WP Duality in terms of aether waves, but
> > > cannot explain what happens to the wave when we ask "which way" and
> > > interference patterns diasppear. Where did the wave go ?
>
> > > The answer to this problem is that space is neither continuous nor
> > > discrete, but indeterminately either one or the other. It is
> > > indeterminate whether it is continuous or discrete.
>
> > > How can that be ? Consider 2 lengths A and B. A is existent, B is
> > > nonexistent.
> > > Let A be eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> > > Let B be nnnnnnnnnn
>
> > > If you compose them into a single length, there is no way to know
> > > where the nnnnnnnnnn is located. It's position is indeterminate. You
> > > can rearrange things so that the composition of A and B is either
> > > continuous or discrete, and because nnnnnnnnnn is nonexistent the
> > > distinction between continuity and discreteness becomes trivial.
>
> > > We must assume that particles are composed of bent space - just like
> > > gravity in GR. Then, it becomes very obvious why the WP Duality is
> > > perfectly sensible.
>
> > > If one asks "which way" in a given context, then nature returns an
> > > answer in the format that you had requested - it is discretized. If
> > > you dont ask which way, then space will be forced to behave as if
> > > continuous and you will observe interference patterns.
>
> > > But the only way to make LENGTH behave that way is by composing the
> > > existent with the nonexistent. Length cannot be made to behave that
> > > way by any other means (that I am aware of).
>
> > Someone might want to discuss AD on this thread, might as well be me.
>
> > Aether is an elastic medium and does not rest when displaced. It
> > pushes back. When matter displaces the aether, the pressure the aether
> > exerts back towards the matter is gravity.
>
> > When a C-60 molecule is used in a double slit experiment, the
> > displacement wave the C-60 molecule creates in the aether enters and
> > exits multiple slits while the C-60 molecule enters and exits a single
> > slit.
>
> > The moving particle creates a displacement wave in the substance of
> > space directly in front of the path it is traveling. The particle
> > cannot be detected without detecting the displacement wave. Detecting
> > 'which way' means detecting the particle. Detecting the particle means
> > detecting the displacement wave.
>
> > Detecting 'which way' turns the displacement wave into chop.
>
> > Detecting 'which way' destroys the displacement wave.
>
> > 'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A.
> > EINSTEIN'http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf
>
> > "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass
> > diminishes by L/c2."
>
> > The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer
> > exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as
> > aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands. The effect
> > this expansion has on the surrounding aether
> > and matter is energy.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> OK - I will play. Please explain what this means:
>
> > Detecting 'which way' turns the displacement wave into chop.
>
> What is a chop ?

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:gVcSko056rYJ:www.lanelinestoshorelines.com/multimedia/docs/Triathlete_Mag_Mastering_Rough_Water180.pdf+chop+water+waves&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

"To facilitate our discussion, let's differentiate between two common
types of rough water: Waves and chop.
Waves travel in one direction - head-on, from your back, or from one-
side. You either swim up and over them or
you swim through them. Chop is many small waves coming from no
discernible direction. (Look in your washing machine the next time
it's on wash cycle)"
From: Huang on
On Dec 15, 8:40 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote:
> "Huang" <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7efef092-922d-4e10-8cc0-18160fac30ce(a)k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 15, 8:49 am, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> >> On Dec 15, 7:49 am, Huang wrote:><<< There is (by definition) no such
> >> thing as a nonexistent length.  So you're just talking nonsense. >>>
>
> >> >< What Inertial is saying here is very good. He makes a good point. To
> >> >advance his argument a little further....one could argue many ways.
>
> >>  [1] All nonexistent things are congruent or indistinguishable because
> >> nonexistence is a singularity {is a point, which has 0 volume thus is
> >> purely imaginary}. So, to speak of nonexistent length is no different
> >> than speaking of nonexistent apples, oranges, or bananas.
> >>  This would obviously be a problem if we were working with segments of
> >> length which were %100 nonexistent. For example, let A exist and let B
> >> be nonexistent {= 0}, and compose A and B into a single length
> >> segment. If A = 0, then we are performing nonsense for all B. But also
> >> note that if B = 0 then we are performing orthodox mathematics for all
> >> A. >
>
> >>   If B doesn't exist, then why is
> >>   A + B = 0 + 0 = 0 "nonsense" while
> >>   A + B = 4 + 0 = 4 is ok?
>
> > Really an excellent question and Im quite surprised that someone would
> > even ask.
>
> Perhaps you shoud have asked yourself


That's what you are for.


> > Clearly the case where A=0 and B is nonzero is nonsense for all B.
>
> Nope


Uhhhh...counterexample please ???


> > The case where B=0 is just standard mathematics for all A.
>
> Nope


Huh ? Getting stoned much these days ?


> > The case where A and B are both zero is a special case.
>
> Nope
>
> Its all just math


Bahhh - mathematics ? Please do not drink until after 9:30 pm - this
is much too early for that. Mathematics is based on things which are -
proveable- . Conjectural models are inherently indeterminate to the
very foundational considerations of existence of the most fundamental
things - nothing is proveable in conjecture. Conjecture is different
from what is known. Conjecture is permanently and irrevocably distinct
from the known truths of the logical contraption known as mathematics.


> >> >< The composition of A and B yields a different kind of of magnitude. It
> >> >is not mathematics, and it is not [{ ? }] nonsense either. It is a
> >> >hybrid. And the very interesting thing is that this composition A and B
> >> >can be explained or modelled using probability theory. >
>
> >>  There is a HUGE difference between the "probability" that B has a
> >> value of zero and the fact that "B doesn't exist". Indeed, if B
> >> doesn't exist then the probability that the value of B is zero is
> >> 100%.
>
> The probability of B having any value is 0% is B does not exist

???

> > Here's the deal. Let A = 75 and let B = 25. Compose A and B into a
> > single magnitude (or length). The "conjectured" length is 100. The
> > "expected" length is 75.
>
> Nonsense.  If A is 75 and B is 25, the length is 100 (conjectured or
> otherwise)


Nope - 75 exists, 25 does not exist, and we combine them to get 100
which exists with probability 3/4, expected length is 75.


> > And this new conjectured length has the same
> > properties as an existent segment C of length 100 which has a
> > "probability of existing = 3/4".
>
> Nonsense


Hah. See my cointoss example. It all makes perfect sense.


> > So maybe you can explain why the numbers work so nicely.
>
> They don't . they are nonsense


lol - denial is always the best.


> >> ><If the ratio of A to B is conserved, then calculations become sensible
> >> >and the results you will obtain are identical to performing standard
> >> >probability theory.>
>
> >>  If B doesn't exist, then B = 0.
>
> No .. if B doesn't exist it has no value BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST


We can go round and round in circles. It is better to approach the
paradox with the understanding that it is irresolveable.

On my desk there are no apples. The apples do not exist. Does the fact
that they do not exist prevent them from being apples ? This is not a
sticking point - it is triviality in action.


> >> What is the "ratio of A to B" if A =
> >> 1 or 2 or infinity or zero?
>
> > There are many B which dont exist and they are all congruent because
> > nonexistence is singular. When you MIX the existent with the
> > nonexistent then the resulting magnitude is not purely noexistent,
>
> You can't do anything with the non-existent BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST.


Im not doing anything with B by itself. B only makes sense because you
have A. Without A then B becomes nosensical.

But if you MIX A with B, the composition is NOT purely nonsensical -
it is partly sensible. It forms the basis of conjecture which is
neither math nor nonsense.


> > and
> > it does not behave the same way as a purely noexistent thing.
>
> A non-existent things has no behavior BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST.


A composed with B is partly existent. Are you arguing that the
composition is completely nonexistent simply because B is
nonexistent ?


> > It
> > behaves differently. It is not neccesarily singular. Part of it
> > exists.
>
> Nonsense


lol

> > It is wrong to say that " If B doesn't exist, then B = 0." . This is
> > not correct. B can be 1,2,3, 10, 1x10^6,
>
> No .. it can't .  it cannot have nay value BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST.
>
> > and it is only nonexistent if
> > you declare it to be so. B nonexistent does not imply that B=0.
>
> It implies B <> 0 ... indeed it implies B <> x for all x
>
> > The ratio of A to B is the existential potential, which is conserved.
>
> Nonsense word soup


Get a big bowl. Would you like some bread with your broth ?


> > Conservation forces this thing to work properly, and it does.
>
> Its just all nonsense .. and you know it- Hide quoted text -


Quite not the case.


> - Show quoted text -