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From: tony cooper on 22 Jan 2010 17:02 On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:45:18 +0000, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >According to an in depth discussion in another group The UK actually >spends less per person on health care (including dental) in the UK than >the USA spends per person. Also it covers EVERY person in the UK, not >just 80% as per the USA. Where do you get your 80% figure? Everyone in the US is covered by some sort of health care program. It may be a private insurance program, Medicare, Medicaid, or some other government program. There is a wide difference between being covered by a private insurance program and relying on free government care, but the point is that 100% of the people are covered. Few Americans will argue that we our health care system is adequate, but anyone with any knowledge of the system will refute your 80% claim. This is where you lose your credibility, and where these other sources you rely on lose their credibility. You make unfounded and incorrect statements, and - because of this - when you do say something right, people don't believe you. >However as there are no insurance companies involved the costs are far >lower. IE in the US the hospitals & doctors charge more as the insurance >companies are paying for it. This is how they make a profit. As with >any commercial company the hospitals are there to make a profit. Most US hospitals are non-profit. That doesn't mean that their revenue is set to equal their costs, but it means that excess revenue is not paid out to shareholders. The excess revenue is put back into the hospital in the form of expansion and improvements. Since non-profits are not taxed as for-profit hospitals are, more of the revenue is reinvested. I don't know the structure of the NHS hospitals, but I suspect they operate much the same as US non-profits in that revenues exceed expenses and excess revenue is put back into the hospitals in the form of expansion and improvements. A major difference would be that the US non-profits are separate entities rather than part of a national program. In the US, the non-profit generates excess revenue that is spent by that hospital on that hospital. Despite the fact that you have been corrected over and over again on these mistaken beliefs you have about the US, you continue to expound on subjects you know nothing about. Do you think that you will ever learn that these sources you have are unreliable fact-wise? >In the UK the NHS does not need to make a profit in the same was a >commercial company does. Therefore the charges are "net" costs and no >profit margin. I.E. far lower than in the US All hospitals - in this country and yours - must continue to upgrade their facilities and equipment. The money has to come from somewhere. If the hospitals do not set the revenue basis to exceed costs, then the government must supply the funds for the hospital to keep up. One way or the other, the citizens foot the bill. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
From: J�rgen Exner on 22 Jan 2010 17:41 tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:45:18 +0000, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >wrote: > >>According to an in depth discussion in another group The UK actually >>spends less per person on health care (including dental) in the UK than >>the USA spends per person. Also it covers EVERY person in the UK, not >>just 80% as per the USA. > >Where do you get your 80% figure? Everyone in the US is covered by >some sort of health care program. It may be a private insurance >program, Medicare, Medicaid, or some other government program. There >is a wide difference between being covered by a private insurance >program and relying on free government care, but the point is that >100% of the people are covered. Few Americans will argue that we our >health care system is adequate, but anyone with any knowledge of the >system will refute your 80% claim. http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news/20090910/more-americans-have-no-health-insurance You might argue this website is biased, but then what about official sources who are charged with compiling those statistics?: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/hinsure.htm "Persons under age 65 * Number uninsured at the time of interview: 43.6 million (2008) * Percent uninsured at the time of interview: 17% (2008)" http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_10/sr10_243.pdf: "Type of Health Insurance Coverage (Tables 18,19) Among persons under age 65 years, 170 million (65%) had private health insurance, 37 million (15%) had Medicaid, and 44 million (17%) were uninsured." [This is the latest official research study for 2009] Any other questions? >This is where you lose your credibility, and where these other sources >you rely on lose their credibility. You make unfounded and incorrect >statements, and - because of this - when you do say something right, >people don't believe you. Well, I my book 20% is a fair approximation of 17%. jue
From: Peter on 22 Jan 2010 19:52 "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message news:4m6kl5tr32uv8gnscvpgipiuadojc5g061(a)4ax.com... > > Where do you get your 80% figure? Everyone in the US is covered by > some sort of health care program. It may be a private insurance > program, Medicare, Medicaid, or some other government program. There > is a wide difference between being covered by a private insurance > program and relying on free government care, but the point is that > 100% of the people are covered. Few Americans will argue that we our > health care system is adequate, but anyone with any knowledge of the > system will refute your 80% claim. Gotta disagree. Yes a lot of people in certain categories are covered, but I know too many who have been forced into bankruptcy and/or lost their life savings because of medical costs. A high percentage of people on Medicare are forced to make a choice between eating and taking their prescription meds. Yes there is a point at which Medicare steps in, but that is not until life savings are lost, or spent down. -- Peter
From: tony cooper on 22 Jan 2010 20:22 On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:41:11 -0800, J�rgen Exner <jurgenex(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >>On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:45:18 +0000, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >>wrote: >> >>>According to an in depth discussion in another group The UK actually >>>spends less per person on health care (including dental) in the UK than >>>the USA spends per person. Also it covers EVERY person in the UK, not >>>just 80% as per the USA. >> >>Where do you get your 80% figure? Everyone in the US is covered by >>some sort of health care program. It may be a private insurance >>program, Medicare, Medicaid, or some other government program. There >>is a wide difference between being covered by a private insurance >>program and relying on free government care, but the point is that >>100% of the people are covered. Few Americans will argue that we our >>health care system is adequate, but anyone with any knowledge of the >>system will refute your 80% claim. > >http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news/20090910/more-americans-have-no-health-insurance >You might argue this website is biased, but then what about official >sources who are charged with compiling those statistics?: I don't even need to open this site to answer. The names says enough. It pertains to Americans who do not have health care *insurance*. An American does not need to be covered by private insurance to obtain health care. In fact, you don't need to be an American to obtain health care in the US. >http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/hinsure.htm >"Persons under age 65 > * Number uninsured at the time of interview: 43.6 million (2008) > * Percent uninsured at the time of interview: 17% (2008)" Insured. > >http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_10/sr10_243.pdf: >"Type of Health Insurance Coverage (Tables 18,19) >Among persons under age 65 years, 170 million (65%) had private health >insurance, 37 million (15%) had Medicaid, and 44 million (17%) were >uninsured." >[This is the latest official research study for 2009] Insurance. >Any other questions? Yes. One. Where did Chris say anything about the percentage of Americans covered by private insurance? > >>This is where you lose your credibility, and where these other sources >>you rely on lose their credibility. You make unfounded and incorrect >>statements, and - because of this - when you do say something right, >>people don't believe you. > >Well, I my book 20% is a fair approximation of 17%. > An uninsured person will be treated in any public hospital emergency room. The law forbids the hospital from turning them away. An uninsured person will be examined and treated in a public health clinic. Free treatment for the uninsured is available for medical, dental, and mental disorders. Various county, state, and federal programs provide free prescription drugs. Is it a good system? No. But, is health care available to all? Yes. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
From: tony cooper on 22 Jan 2010 20:27
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:52:57 -0500, "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote: >"tony cooper" <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote in message >news:4m6kl5tr32uv8gnscvpgipiuadojc5g061(a)4ax.com... > >> >> Where do you get your 80% figure? Everyone in the US is covered by >> some sort of health care program. It may be a private insurance >> program, Medicare, Medicaid, or some other government program. There >> is a wide difference between being covered by a private insurance >> program and relying on free government care, but the point is that >> 100% of the people are covered. Few Americans will argue that we our >> health care system is adequate, but anyone with any knowledge of the >> system will refute your 80% claim. > > > >Gotta disagree. Yes a lot of people in certain categories are covered, but I >know too many who have been forced into bankruptcy and/or lost their life >savings because of medical costs. That's a whole different issue. Even a certain number of the 80% of Americans who do have private insurance coverage can face this. Most private insurance policies have some sort of limitation on the coverage. > -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |