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From: Ray Fischer on 23 Jan 2010 17:37 Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >On 2010-01-23, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >> In message <hjfd8f$pjv$2(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Brent <tetraethyll >> eadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> writes >>>On 2010-01-23, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >>> >>>>>Also, an 80 year old person cannot get a kidney or transplant. Heart >>>>>transplant candidates are carefully screened. All of this is a form of >>>>>rationing. >>> >>>> In the UK they would if they were fit enough for the operation and it >>>> would improve their life. That said AFAIK all patients get screened for >>>> operations as no one wants to do pointless operations. However these >>>> decisions are taken on medical grounds. >>> >>>That's rationing of the pie. The customer doesn't decide, the government >>>employee does. >> >> Not at all the medical staff decide on MEDICAL grounds. > >I did not say what grounds the decision was made on, only who makes it. >The government employees make it. Because government is political most >of the decision making will be political. > >>>They decide how the health care pie is going to be split >>>up. They decide if the 80 year old is deserving of it or not. It's a >>>fixed supply system. That's the mentality it runs under. > >> That is the US mentality. Not the NHS mentality. > >That's the government mentality. > >> All I have seen so far is the US does not trust it's own governments. > >Government has killed more people than anything else in human history. >Government is fundamentally a criminal enterprise. Government and a >criminal gang with sufficent power are for all purposes the same thing. Government is us. By damning government you damn yourself. -- Ray Fischer rfischer(a)sonic.net
From: Ray Fischer on 23 Jan 2010 17:41 rendition <ren(a)stimpy.org> wrote: >Ray Fischer wrote: >> rendition <ren(a)stimpy.org> wrote: >>> Ray Fischer wrote: >>>> tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>> Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >>>>>> According to an in depth discussion in another group The UK actually >>>>>> spends less per person on health care (including dental) in the UK than >>>>>> the USA spends per person. Also it covers EVERY person in the UK, not >>>>>> just 80% as per the USA. >>>>> Where do you get your 80% figure? Everyone in the US is covered by >>>>> some sort of health care program. >>>> Nope. >>> See: emergency room. >> >> See: Idiot rightard who doesn't realize that emergency room bills must be paid. > >Well of course they must, Thus refuting the idiot rightard's claim that covered health insurance is the same as fee-for-service treatment in an emergency room. -- Ray Fischer rfischer(a)sonic.net
From: Brent on 23 Jan 2010 17:55 On 2010-01-23, Ray Fischer <rfischer(a)sonic.net> wrote: > Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>On 2010-01-23, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >>> In message <hjfd8f$pjv$2(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Brent <tetraethyll >>> eadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> writes >>>>On 2010-01-23, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>>>Also, an 80 year old person cannot get a kidney or transplant. Heart >>>>>>transplant candidates are carefully screened. All of this is a form of >>>>>>rationing. >>>> >>>>> In the UK they would if they were fit enough for the operation and it >>>>> would improve their life. That said AFAIK all patients get screened for >>>>> operations as no one wants to do pointless operations. However these >>>>> decisions are taken on medical grounds. >>>> >>>>That's rationing of the pie. The customer doesn't decide, the government >>>>employee does. >>> >>> Not at all the medical staff decide on MEDICAL grounds. >> >>I did not say what grounds the decision was made on, only who makes it. >>The government employees make it. Because government is political most >>of the decision making will be political. >> >>>>They decide how the health care pie is going to be split >>>>up. They decide if the 80 year old is deserving of it or not. It's a >>>>fixed supply system. That's the mentality it runs under. >> >>> That is the US mentality. Not the NHS mentality. >> >>That's the government mentality. >> >>> All I have seen so far is the US does not trust it's own governments. >> >>Government has killed more people than anything else in human history. >>Government is fundamentally a criminal enterprise. Government and a >>criminal gang with sufficent power are for all purposes the same thing. > > Government is us. By damning government you damn yourself. It is not 'us'. It hasn't been 'us' for a very very long time if it ever was. The ruling class doesn't really care for what 'we' want, only to what we'll put up without taking out torches and pitchforks. And it aims to take away any tools by which we can rise up against it. If the government were 'us' it wouldn't need a monopoly on the use of violence against 'us' and 'us' being armed would not be a concern for it. Then there are the implications of 'us' being responsible for some very horrible things government does. I certainly did not approve of or endorse those things, did you?
From: rendition on 23 Jan 2010 18:14 Ray Fischer wrote: > Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> On 2010-01-23, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >>> In message <hjfd8f$pjv$2(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Brent <tetraethyll >>> eadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> writes >>>> On 2010-01-23, Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Also, an 80 year old person cannot get a kidney or transplant. Heart >>>>>> transplant candidates are carefully screened. All of this is a form of >>>>>> rationing. >>>>> In the UK they would if they were fit enough for the operation and it >>>>> would improve their life. That said AFAIK all patients get screened for >>>>> operations as no one wants to do pointless operations. However these >>>>> decisions are taken on medical grounds. >>>> That's rationing of the pie. The customer doesn't decide, the government >>>> employee does. >>> Not at all the medical staff decide on MEDICAL grounds. >> I did not say what grounds the decision was made on, only who makes it. >> The government employees make it. Because government is political most >> of the decision making will be political. >> >>>> They decide how the health care pie is going to be split >>>> up. They decide if the 80 year old is deserving of it or not. It's a >>>> fixed supply system. That's the mentality it runs under. >>> That is the US mentality. Not the NHS mentality. >> That's the government mentality. >> >>> All I have seen so far is the US does not trust it's own governments. >> Government has killed more people than anything else in human history. >> Government is fundamentally a criminal enterprise. Government and a >> criminal gang with sufficent power are for all purposes the same thing. > > Government is us. By damning government you damn yourself. > I have seen the enemy and he is us.
From: rendition on 23 Jan 2010 18:15
Ray Fischer wrote: > rendition <ren(a)stimpy.org> wrote: >> Ray Fischer wrote: >>> rendition <ren(a)stimpy.org> wrote: >>>> Ray Fischer wrote: >>>>> tony cooper <tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>>> Chris H <chris(a)phaedsys.org> >>>>>>> According to an in depth discussion in another group The UK actually >>>>>>> spends less per person on health care (including dental) in the UK than >>>>>>> the USA spends per person. Also it covers EVERY person in the UK, not >>>>>>> just 80% as per the USA. >>>>>> Where do you get your 80% figure? Everyone in the US is covered by >>>>>> some sort of health care program. >>>>> Nope. >>>> See: emergency room. >>> See: Idiot rightard who doesn't realize that emergency room bills must be paid. >> Well of course they must, > > Thus refuting the idiot rightard's claim that covered health > insurance is the same as fee-for-service treatment in an emergency > room. No such claim was made, why do you lie constantly? |