Ebay Shill Bidding
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From: Magnum on 20 May 2010 07:11 "Bill Bowden" <wrongaddress(a)att.net> wrote in message news:def5cd9e-7839-4505-b1c0-e14f7b2464ca(a)40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com... > > But it still seems to be a violation of Ebay (shill) policies. > and most certainly illegal in Britland
From: Spehro Pefhany on 20 May 2010 07:58 On Thu, 20 May 2010 06:33:24 -0400, the renowned PeterD <peter2(a)hipson.net> wrote: >On Thu, 20 May 2010 07:33:42 +0100, "TTman" <someone.pc(a)ntlworld.com> >wrote: > >> >>"Bill Bowden" <wrongaddress(a)att.net> wrote in message >>news:def5cd9e-7839-4505-b1c0-e14f7b2464ca(a)40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com... >>>I have bought a few items on Ebay with good transactions, and was >>> recently looking at a true sinewave inverter (12 volt DC to 120 VAC) >>> 300 watt Continuous, 600 watt peak, and so I bid $60 maximum but was >>> outbid by $7 and lost the auction. I then noticed the same item was >>> for sale again in just a few hours (maybe 18) and so I bid again with >>> a limit of $60 and again lost the auction with a final bid of $65. And >>> so I bid again on the same item with same limit of $60 and was outbid >>> again at $61.12. And then bid again for the 4th time on the same item, >>> and again lost the auction for $61.00, just $1.00 more than my limit. >>> >>> The seller appears to have a good feedback record, but this auction >>> looks like somebody is bidding against me just to drive the price up, >>> and always wins the auction by bidding $1 more than my limit. >>> >>> I do understand the new 300 watt sinewave inverter is worth more than >>> $60, probably in the $200 range, so maybe this is just standard >>> practice to weed out the low bidders? >>> >>> But it still seems to be a violation of Ebay (shill) policies. >>> >>> -Bill >>> >> >>Sounds like maybe the seller is bidding ( with an alias) to avoid a low >>value sale.... >> > >Huh? Why would he do that? If he were shill bidding and winning, he >would have to pay the (final value) fees which on a low dollar item >like this would ruin his chances of ever making a profit. Shill >bidding has only one purpose: drive up the bidding price WITHOUT >WINNING! That is clearly not happening! Had the OP said "I bid a max >of $60, and someone else bid $59 so I had to pay th e $60 I bid >max..." there might (slim might!) be a case. But he lost, so there is >likely no chance this is what happened. > >BTW, the seller does not know what your maximum bid is! Once you've been outbid on a similar auction a few times recently (wihtin the past 2 weeks, I think), they might have a pretty good idea. But this just sounds like he's being outbid. Since the seller probably has a continous supply of these things from a manufacturer-- if you're not in a hurry then just set up a sniping program to bid in the last second or two whatever maximum you want to pay. Sooner or later, you'll probably get it- especially if the seller makes the ending time on a holiday, during a big game, or something like that. Using ebay's so-called proxy bidding system sets up a dynamic similar to a live auction where people are encouraged to overbid, and that's particularly undesirable when there is unlimited supply of the items. Another possibility is to follow any info links, back up to the home page, and see if the seller has his own web page selling the items off ebay, perhaps for the starting price or a bit above. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff(a)interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
From: Martin Brown on 20 May 2010 08:52 On 20/05/2010 11:35, PeterD wrote: > On Thu, 20 May 2010 18:13:43 +1000, Sylvia Else > <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: > >> On 20/05/2010 5:14 PM, Bart! wrote: >>> On Thu, 20 May 2010 07:33:42 +0100, "TTman"<someone.pc(a)ntlworld.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> "Bill Bowden"<wrongaddress(a)att.net> wrote in message >>>> news:def5cd9e-7839-4505-b1c0-e14f7b2464ca(a)40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com... >>>>> I have bought a few items on Ebay with good transactions, and was >>>>> recently looking at a true sinewave inverter (12 volt DC to 120 VAC) >>>>> 300 watt Continuous, 600 watt peak, and so I bid $60 maximum but was >>>>> outbid by $7 and lost the auction. I then noticed the same item was >>>>> for sale again in just a few hours (maybe 18) and so I bid again with >>>>> a limit of $60 and again lost the auction with a final bid of $65. And >>>>> so I bid again on the same item with same limit of $60 and was outbid >>>>> again at $61.12. And then bid again for the 4th time on the same item, >>>>> and again lost the auction for $61.00, just $1.00 more than my limit. >>>>> >>>>> The seller appears to have a good feedback record, but this auction >>>>> looks like somebody is bidding against me just to drive the price up, >>>>> and always wins the auction by bidding $1 more than my limit. >>>>> >>>>> I do understand the new 300 watt sinewave inverter is worth more than >>>>> $60, probably in the $200 range, so maybe this is just standard >>>>> practice to weed out the low bidders? >>>>> >>>>> But it still seems to be a violation of Ebay (shill) policies. >>>>> >>>>> -Bill >>>>> >>>> >>>> Sounds like maybe the seller is bidding ( with an alias) to avoid a low >>>> value sale.... >>>> >>> >>> But, he would still owe ebay their commission for EACH sale. So, he is >>> a complete and utter retard for bidding on his own item, and IF ebay >>> allows him to "remove" the sale internally after it has already been >>> "sold" from an online observation perspective, they are breaking their >>> own rules. >>> >>> I would report the fact that the item went up 4 times over, and that the >>> bidding/sale result looks quite suspicious since the item is listed as >>> the only one he has to sell. >> >> The seller doesn't have to list multiple items in one auction if he >> doesn't want to. >> >> The fact that the OP is losing out by $1 each time just reflects the >> fact that the bid increment is $1. If someone wants several of these >> inverters, it makes sense for them to specify the maximum amount they're >> willing to pay as their maximum bid. Then provided no other bidder out >> bids them, their final automatic bid will be $1 more than the highest >> bid from anyone else. If it happens that there's only one other bidder, >> then that bidder will find himself outbid each time by $1. It's a >> natural outcome, and there's nothing iffy about it. >> >> Sylvia. > > Sylvia, actually he only lost two of the auctions by that dollar, the > other two were lost by more. Picking a common value of $60 for a > maximum really distorts things because other bidders will usually > always be smart enough to bid an odd amount over a common value. > (Smart bidders bid $61.99 for example, to allow outbidding those who > bid an even $60!) I agree. Exactly $60 is a particularly useless bid value that is very likely to lose. On the third item there must have been two other bidders one bid $61 and the other $61.12 The OP might try $61.17 and then adding $1 to each successive bid until either he hits the price ceiling that he is prepared to pay or he wins. Or watching the final stage of the auction and trying to snipe with a price that is just above the rival autobidder(s). Regards, Martin Brown
From: Bart! on 20 May 2010 08:55 On Thu, 20 May 2010 18:13:43 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: >On 20/05/2010 5:14 PM, Bart! wrote: >> On Thu, 20 May 2010 07:33:42 +0100, "TTman"<someone.pc(a)ntlworld.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> "Bill Bowden"<wrongaddress(a)att.net> wrote in message >>> news:def5cd9e-7839-4505-b1c0-e14f7b2464ca(a)40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com... >>>> I have bought a few items on Ebay with good transactions, and was >>>> recently looking at a true sinewave inverter (12 volt DC to 120 VAC) >>>> 300 watt Continuous, 600 watt peak, and so I bid $60 maximum but was >>>> outbid by $7 and lost the auction. I then noticed the same item was >>>> for sale again in just a few hours (maybe 18) and so I bid again with >>>> a limit of $60 and again lost the auction with a final bid of $65. And >>>> so I bid again on the same item with same limit of $60 and was outbid >>>> again at $61.12. And then bid again for the 4th time on the same item, >>>> and again lost the auction for $61.00, just $1.00 more than my limit. >>>> >>>> The seller appears to have a good feedback record, but this auction >>>> looks like somebody is bidding against me just to drive the price up, >>>> and always wins the auction by bidding $1 more than my limit. >>>> >>>> I do understand the new 300 watt sinewave inverter is worth more than >>>> $60, probably in the $200 range, so maybe this is just standard >>>> practice to weed out the low bidders? >>>> >>>> But it still seems to be a violation of Ebay (shill) policies. >>>> >>>> -Bill >>>> >>> >>> Sounds like maybe the seller is bidding ( with an alias) to avoid a low >>> value sale.... >>> >> >> But, he would still owe ebay their commission for EACH sale. So, he is >> a complete and utter retard for bidding on his own item, and IF ebay >> allows him to "remove" the sale internally after it has already been >> "sold" from an online observation perspective, they are breaking their >> own rules. >> >> I would report the fact that the item went up 4 times over, and that the >> bidding/sale result looks quite suspicious since the item is listed as >> the only one he has to sell. > >The seller doesn't have to list multiple items in one auction if he >doesn't want to. That is NOT what I said. They do not have to list them in multiple auctions either, dumbass. They can put them up one at a time, which is the appearance this idiot gives. The behavior, however, shows that he is re-selling the same item. > >The fact that the OP is losing out by $1 each time just reflects the >fact that the bid increment is $1. Nobody said anything about the difference. Learn to read. snipped remaining utter stupidity.
From: Sylvia Else on 20 May 2010 11:00
On 20/05/2010 10:55 PM, Bart! wrote: > On Thu, 20 May 2010 18:13:43 +1000, Sylvia Else > <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: > >> On 20/05/2010 5:14 PM, Bart! wrote: >>> On Thu, 20 May 2010 07:33:42 +0100, "TTman"<someone.pc(a)ntlworld.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> "Bill Bowden"<wrongaddress(a)att.net> wrote in message >>>> news:def5cd9e-7839-4505-b1c0-e14f7b2464ca(a)40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com... >>>>> I have bought a few items on Ebay with good transactions, and was >>>>> recently looking at a true sinewave inverter (12 volt DC to 120 VAC) >>>>> 300 watt Continuous, 600 watt peak, and so I bid $60 maximum but was >>>>> outbid by $7 and lost the auction. I then noticed the same item was >>>>> for sale again in just a few hours (maybe 18) and so I bid again with >>>>> a limit of $60 and again lost the auction with a final bid of $65. And >>>>> so I bid again on the same item with same limit of $60 and was outbid >>>>> again at $61.12. And then bid again for the 4th time on the same item, >>>>> and again lost the auction for $61.00, just $1.00 more than my limit. >>>>> >>>>> The seller appears to have a good feedback record, but this auction >>>>> looks like somebody is bidding against me just to drive the price up, >>>>> and always wins the auction by bidding $1 more than my limit. >>>>> >>>>> I do understand the new 300 watt sinewave inverter is worth more than >>>>> $60, probably in the $200 range, so maybe this is just standard >>>>> practice to weed out the low bidders? >>>>> >>>>> But it still seems to be a violation of Ebay (shill) policies. >>>>> >>>>> -Bill >>>>> >>>> >>>> Sounds like maybe the seller is bidding ( with an alias) to avoid a low >>>> value sale.... >>>> >>> >>> But, he would still owe ebay their commission for EACH sale. So, he is >>> a complete and utter retard for bidding on his own item, and IF ebay >>> allows him to "remove" the sale internally after it has already been >>> "sold" from an online observation perspective, they are breaking their >>> own rules. >>> >>> I would report the fact that the item went up 4 times over, and that the >>> bidding/sale result looks quite suspicious since the item is listed as >>> the only one he has to sell. >> >> The seller doesn't have to list multiple items in one auction if he >> doesn't want to. > > That is NOT what I said. > > They do not have to list them in multiple auctions either, dumbass. > They can put them up one at a time, which is the appearance this idiot > gives. The behavior, however, shows that he is re-selling the same item. Why does it? He sells one, he lists a new one. Perfectly normal. Sylvia. |