Ebay Shill Bidding
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From: Sylvia Else on 20 May 2010 11:13 On 20/05/2010 10:52 PM, Martin Brown wrote: > On 20/05/2010 11:35, PeterD wrote: >> On Thu, 20 May 2010 18:13:43 +1000, Sylvia Else >> <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote: >> >>> On 20/05/2010 5:14 PM, Bart! wrote: >>>> On Thu, 20 May 2010 07:33:42 +0100, "TTman"<someone.pc(a)ntlworld.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Bill Bowden"<wrongaddress(a)att.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:def5cd9e-7839-4505-b1c0-e14f7b2464ca(a)40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com... >>>>> >>>>>> I have bought a few items on Ebay with good transactions, and was >>>>>> recently looking at a true sinewave inverter (12 volt DC to 120 VAC) >>>>>> 300 watt Continuous, 600 watt peak, and so I bid $60 maximum but was >>>>>> outbid by $7 and lost the auction. I then noticed the same item was >>>>>> for sale again in just a few hours (maybe 18) and so I bid again with >>>>>> a limit of $60 and again lost the auction with a final bid of $65. >>>>>> And >>>>>> so I bid again on the same item with same limit of $60 and was outbid >>>>>> again at $61.12. And then bid again for the 4th time on the same >>>>>> item, >>>>>> and again lost the auction for $61.00, just $1.00 more than my limit. >>>>>> >>>>>> The seller appears to have a good feedback record, but this auction >>>>>> looks like somebody is bidding against me just to drive the price up, >>>>>> and always wins the auction by bidding $1 more than my limit. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do understand the new 300 watt sinewave inverter is worth more than >>>>>> $60, probably in the $200 range, so maybe this is just standard >>>>>> practice to weed out the low bidders? >>>>>> >>>>>> But it still seems to be a violation of Ebay (shill) policies. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Bill >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sounds like maybe the seller is bidding ( with an alias) to avoid a >>>>> low >>>>> value sale.... >>>>> >>>> >>>> But, he would still owe ebay their commission for EACH sale. So, he is >>>> a complete and utter retard for bidding on his own item, and IF ebay >>>> allows him to "remove" the sale internally after it has already been >>>> "sold" from an online observation perspective, they are breaking their >>>> own rules. >>>> >>>> I would report the fact that the item went up 4 times over, and that >>>> the >>>> bidding/sale result looks quite suspicious since the item is listed as >>>> the only one he has to sell. >>> >>> The seller doesn't have to list multiple items in one auction if he >>> doesn't want to. >>> >>> The fact that the OP is losing out by $1 each time just reflects the >>> fact that the bid increment is $1. If someone wants several of these >>> inverters, it makes sense for them to specify the maximum amount they're >>> willing to pay as their maximum bid. Then provided no other bidder out >>> bids them, their final automatic bid will be $1 more than the highest >>> bid from anyone else. If it happens that there's only one other bidder, >>> then that bidder will find himself outbid each time by $1. It's a >>> natural outcome, and there's nothing iffy about it. >>> >>> Sylvia. >> >> Sylvia, actually he only lost two of the auctions by that dollar, the >> other two were lost by more. Picking a common value of $60 for a >> maximum really distorts things because other bidders will usually >> always be smart enough to bid an odd amount over a common value. >> (Smart bidders bid $61.99 for example, to allow outbidding those who >> bid an even $60!) > > I agree. Exactly $60 is a particularly useless bid value that is very > likely to lose. On the third item there must have been two other bidders > one bid $61 and the other $61.12 > > The OP might try $61.17 and then adding $1 to each successive bid until > either he hits the price ceiling that he is prepared to pay or he wins. > > Or watching the final stage of the auction and trying to snipe with a > price that is just above the rival autobidder(s). > > Regards, > Martin Brown He might as well just wait until there are only a few seconds left, and then bid the highest he's willing to pay. All that's achieved by making multiple late bids is to give other bidders a reason to rethink (as in increase) their highest bid. Sylvia.
From: D Yuniskis on 20 May 2010 11:52 Hi Sylvia, Sylvia Else wrote: > He might as well just wait until there are only a few seconds left, and > then bid the highest he's willing to pay. All that's achieved by making > multiple late bids is to give other bidders a reason to rethink (as in > increase) their highest bid. Exactly! This is how I used to bid on eBay ("sniping"?). The point of having the system automatically increase your bid on your behalf UP TO THE MAXIMUM YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY is that you should *bid* the MAXIMUM YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY! Instead, people get squeamish and don't want to "commit" to what they *really* (apparently!) are "willing to pay. Instead, they commit to something *less* than what they are willing to pay. Then, they see someone is willing to pay *more* and they suddenly decide that they are, too! So, they keep revising their bid -- often by a dollar or two at a time ("Damn! His max is higher than that! Let me try again...") I.e., one "fix" for this is to let people make *one* bid, then open all of the bids when the auction is over and sort out what the winning amount should be *then*. Or, to impose a fee for each bid, etc. Of course, that is contrary to the emotional aspect of auctions (which are designed to coerce you to bid more than you *want* to bid! -- try some live auctions and see just how difficult this impulse is to fight!). And, of course, eBay's goal is to coax as much money out of your pocket as possible! :> I no longer buy on eBay as it has become too pricey. Especially the shipping charges from many sellers.
From: Michael A. Terrell on 20 May 2010 16:02 D Yuniskis wrote: > > Hi Sylvia, > > Sylvia Else wrote: > > He might as well just wait until there are only a few seconds left, and > > then bid the highest he's willing to pay. All that's achieved by making > > multiple late bids is to give other bidders a reason to rethink (as in > > increase) their highest bid. > > Exactly! This is how I used to bid on eBay ("sniping"?). > > The point of having the system automatically increase your bid > on your behalf UP TO THE MAXIMUM YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY is that > you should *bid* the MAXIMUM YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY! > > Instead, people get squeamish and don't want to "commit" to > what they *really* (apparently!) are "willing to pay. > Instead, they commit to something *less* than what they are > willing to pay. Then, they see someone is willing to pay > *more* and they suddenly decide that they are, too! So, > they keep revising their bid -- often by a dollar or two > at a time ("Damn! His max is higher than that! Let me > try again...") > > I.e., one "fix" for this is to let people make *one* bid, > then open all of the bids when the auction is over and > sort out what the winning amount should be *then*. Or, to > impose a fee for each bid, etc. > > Of course, that is contrary to the emotional aspect of auctions > (which are designed to coerce you to bid more than you *want* > to bid! -- try some live auctions and see just how difficult > this impulse is to fight!). > > And, of course, eBay's goal is to coax as much money out of your > pocket as possible! :> > > I no longer buy on eBay as it has become too pricey. Especially > the shipping charges from many sellers. When I go to real auctions I make 'one' bid. Either I get it, or I don't. I bid $1 a pallet for some used electronic bank equipment once. There were 16 pallets. Someone else bid $2, then got upset when I dropped out. After I bid, I realized it would fill a tractor trailer, and would require about 32 trips to pick it all up. When I went to get the last load of what I won, there were several items I lost that were unclaimed. Everything had to be out of the building by noon the next day, so I bought some nice steel shelving and four sets of metal workbench legs for about $20. Then they told me to take anything that got no bids that I wanted. :) -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
From: Bill Bowden on 20 May 2010 21:27 On May 19, 11:33 pm, "TTman" <someone...(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: > "Bill Bowden" <wrongaddr...(a)att.net> wrote in message > > news:def5cd9e-7839-4505-b1c0-e14f7b2464ca(a)40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com... > > > > >I have bought a few items on Ebay with good transactions, and was > > recently looking at a true sinewave inverter (12 volt DC to 120 VAC) > > 300 watt Continuous, 600 watt peak, and so I bid $60 maximum but was > > outbid by $7 and lost the auction. I then noticed the same item was > > for sale again in just a few hours (maybe 18) and so I bid again with > > a limit of $60 and again lost the auction with a final bid of $65. And > > so I bid again on the same item with same limit of $60 and was outbid > > again at $61.12. And then bid again for the 4th time on the same item, > > and again lost the auction for $61.00, just $1.00 more than my limit. > > > The seller appears to have a good feedback record, but this auction > > looks like somebody is bidding against me just to drive the price up, > > and always wins the auction by bidding $1 more than my limit. > > > I do understand the new 300 watt sinewave inverter is worth more than > > $60, probably in the $200 range, so maybe this is just standard > > practice to weed out the low bidders? > > > But it still seems to be a violation of Ebay (shill) policies. > > > -Bill > > Sounds like maybe the seller is bidding ( with an alias) to avoid a low > value sale.... Yes, it looks like that. I see the same item listed 8 times with various bids ranging from one cent to $32 and quite a few apparent bidders . But there is one listing to "Buy it Now" at $125. I suspect $125 is the going price and any lower bids are automatically outbid by a shill of some sort. I'm losing faith in Ebay, and I have an outstanding case where the seller accepted payment and never shipped the item. I got a message from Ebay advising me not to pay for the item if I hadn't already done so. It was a small loss of $10 and I'm waiting to see if Ebay will cover the loss. Ebay claims somebody hacked the seller's account and the real seller is not to blame, but I don't know how that can be done. Seems like if someone hacks an account, they would also have to also hack PayPal to get any money. And what good does it do to sell something with someone elses account if they can't get the money out of PayPal? And if they can get the money out of PayPal, why bother selling anything? I might get some clue when Ebay answers in 72 hours. -Bill
From: Archimedes' Lever on 20 May 2010 21:50
On Thu, 20 May 2010 13:52:42 +0100, Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >Or watching the final stage of the auction and trying to snipe with a >price that is just above the rival autobidder(s). Just how do you propose to find out what the auto-bidder has his max set at? You really do not think things through, do you, idiot? |