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From: D.M. Procida on 24 Jan 2010 16:40 Peter Ceresole <peter(a)cara.demon.co.uk> wrote: > James Taylor <usenet(a)oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote: > > > I've been through a few periods of severe depression myself, and it's a > > kind of torment I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. > > I worked with a (molecular) scientist, who I greatly admired (and whose > name has simply disappeared from my memory) who suffered from depression > and wrote a fascinating, very dry book about it. In it he says that it > was by far the worst experience of his life, and admitted that it was > actually worse for him than his wife dying of cancer. > > He got himself out of it with a course of cognitive therapy. He had a course of cognitive therapy, and he came out of his depression. Maybe there's a connection between the two, or maybe a healthy brain chemistry slowly reasserted itself; possibly the connection is that the cognitive therapy contributed towards the reassertion of the healthy brain chemistry. It would be nice to think that the way out of depression were cognitive therapy. But, just as one can no more easily snap out of depression than out of dementia, it might be that cognitive therapy is no better a treatment for the first than for the second. Daniele
From: Peter Ceresole on 24 Jan 2010 18:32 D.M. Procida <real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk> wrote: > Maybe there's a connection between the two, or maybe a healthy brain > chemistry slowly reasserted itself; possibly the connection is that the > cognitive therapy contributed towards the reassertion of the healthy > brain chemistry. His belief was that it was as effective as drug treatment. He certainly didn't claim that it was a cure. > > It would be nice to think that the way out of depression were cognitive > therapy. But, just as one can no more easily snap out of depression than > out of dementia, it might be that cognitive therapy is no better a > treatment for the first than for the second. I'm just going by what he said. -- Peter
From: Rowland McDonnell on 24 Jan 2010 19:00 D.M. Procida <real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk> wrote: > James Taylor <usenet(a)oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote: > > > They are reacting to your behaviour! Can't you see? What, by banning me from accessing any services because I refused to do what I was told `or be denied access to any other services'? Yes, I was hit with that threat - as the *opener*: the shrink started out the `examination' session by telling me what `treatment' I was obliged to accept. She told me I had no choice and if I did not obey her orders, I would be denied access to all other local NHS services. You don't threaten a patient because he refused to accept a course of treatment when the `doctor' `offering' that treatment made the `offer' alongside a threat *as an opener* and refused that patient leave to give informed consent. So I said no. And my PCT then banned me from services - because I would not kow-tow to the threat made to me by the shrink. > > If you were to seek > > professional help, the counsellor would help you learn how to behave to > > get a better reaction from people, and you'd be a much happier person. That's actually very upsetting and grotesquely arrogant. I did seek professional help. The years of abuse that the professionals dished out to be has ruined me as a human being. And you knew that. You wanted to upset me very badly, didn't you? And you succeeded. Of course you are totally uninterested in understanding me - you're just looking for means to insult and upset me. And you have succeeded. > > Well, it's no skin off my nose if you fester in the miserable state > > you're in now, but as a fellow human I ought at least encourage you to > > find a path back to mental health, happiness. and fulfilment. You're > > just ill, like someone with diabetes or a liver condition, except for > > you it's your mental condition. Why stay in your current state, getting > > more and more angry and depressed, if you can do something about it? > > I don't want to comment about Rowland's problems, whatever they are, but > I hope you can see that while having diabetes or a liver condition > doesn't in itself affect the sufferer's ability to try to do something > about their illness, having a mental illness quite often does (not least > because it can make it impossible for them to recognise that they are > suffering from a mental illness). And I'd like to point out that I've already told you more than once that I did seek help, and the disgraceful abuse I suffered as a result turned me into what I am now. All because I trusted the professionals to do what they wanted to me for years, accepting all their instructions, doing everything they ordered me to do even though they never explained a thing. The process of accepting professional help for my problems nearly caused my suicide. I survived the abuse that the professionals dished out but they ruined me. I accepted their actions for years and years and years until I noticed that I was close to actually killing myself, at which point I refused to accept any further offers of treatment unless I could give my informed consent. I did that to protect myself against suicide - and it worked. They failed to cause my suicide. In the meantime, I have been refused the leave to give (or withold) informed consent, despite `giving informed consent' being a requirement of all medical guidelines on getting a patient to accept health care. > A counsellour might well be able to provide a generally-healthy person > deal with a crisis, and address problems such as stress or panic-attacks > or inappropriate reactions or even long-term addiction. > > That's not going to work with a dead-seated disorder. Psychosis or > paranoia, for example, or depression, will be a quite different kettle > of fish. <sigh> And of course not one of you would consider the possibility that the reason I can't get access to health care is the practical matter of it in fact actually being practically impossible for me to do so for clear straightfoward practical real-life practical reasons? Which practical reasons might well only exist because of my tendency to panic alarmingly, but they nevertheless do exist. My wife assures me that I'm right on this - although she does think that my worries are exaggerated, she considers that they're perfectly reasonable and not at all mad. I despise and fear professional psychiatrists - which my mother in law the retired nurse considers the only sensible attitude for me to take, given what she knows about my experiences. She doesn't think that I'm being mad to have that attitude and she knows the details. I dislike amateur shrinks almost as much - sounding off on subjects you know absolutely nothing at all about, talking about other human beings in that condescending way as if you've got the key to the universal understanding of humanity when in fact you don't even understand the your own minds. Pfft. Arrogant so-and-sos, the lot of you - and utterly incapable of accepting that judgement. Rowland. -- Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell(a)dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking
From: Rowland McDonnell on 24 Jan 2010 19:03 James Taylor <usenet(a)oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote: [snip] > Oh sure, that's often true. But in Rowland's case he himself admits that > he has mental health problems, so the hurdle of recognition is already > overcome. Now he just needs to *do* something about it. As he has explained many many many times, he sought professional help. After years of psychiatric abuse at the hands of the professionals who were claiming to help him, Rowland found that he was close to suicide and withdrew from being abused. The situation is very complicated and you are incapable of understanding it. Meanwhile, stop insultingly suggesting that I have failed to seek help. The situation is that my mental health problems have all been made very much worse and new ones have been created by the abuse which is all I got when I sought psychiatric help from the NHS in my current area. I accepted all their orders for years until I was close to suicide. Stop commenting on that which you cannot understand. Rowland. -- Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell(a)dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking
From: Rowland McDonnell on 24 Jan 2010 19:06
D.M. Procida <real-not-anti-spam-address(a)apple-juice.co.uk> wrote: [snip] > Again, without wishing to comment about Rowland, it's not enough to > recognise that one has a mental illness; one has to recognise more or > less accurately what that illness actually is, and also recognise more > or less what counts as doing something about it, not to mention being > able to take action. Commenting on me in particular, none of the local professionals have had a clue what to do to me, beyond drug me senseless. I've had nothing remotely like treatment for mental health problems since moving from north of Manchester. Just abuse - drugging, mostly. No form of psychotherapy has been offered to me since I moved here. I have been denied a care plan (believe me I've asked). All I've had is drugs and imprisonment. Worse than useless - it nearly killed me. Rowland. -- Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell(a)dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking |