General question - is accessibility information valued here?
in [UK Mac]
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From: James Jolley on 23 Jan 2010 16:19 On 2010-01-23 21:05:53 +0000, real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid (Rowland McDonnell) said: > Ian Piper <ianpiper(a)mac.com> wrote: > > [snip] > >> I value accessibility in Mac software. To me it goes hand in hand with >> good design for usability, and that means good design per se. > > Accessibility is neither more nor less than good design for usability. That's not how things work unfortunately. There are perfectly good cross-platform apps that are perfectly usable for instance, yet are completely inaccessible. Unlabeled controls, sometimes missing elements that VoiceOver's unable to see, etc. > >> There is surprisingly little published, or even publicised by Apple, >> about the really excellent support for visual impairment included >> within Mac OS X and in the Xcode tools. VoiceOver is absolutely >> brilliant. If you've written some Mac software try running it against >> VoiceOver to see how it stacks up. Then run the Accessibility Verifier >> and Inspector tools. It can be really revealing to see where the >> accessibility gaps are. Luckily if you're using Xcode it is also very >> easy to make improvements. > > I worry that when people think `accessibility' they think /only/ about > the blind. There are people in this world with other disabilities that > need to be addressed with specific accessibility support /in addition to > blind people/ - and people without any disabilities at all who need > their accessibility needs addressed (because these computers need to be > accessible to *everyone*). Yes, but making something accessible for one group usually spills over. How many more times does this need saying to you? The fact is, there is much more accessibility for the sighted user generally, even with other disabilities. Switches are easy to configure generally, input devices are generally easy to interface with. Getting applications to speak relevant information however is not. that's why sticky keys and such are in OS x and have been longer than VO. > > (he added, because James Jolley seems to think that because I want to > see people other than the blind given some support, that I somehow don't > want support given to the blind) > Never read such a pathetic ideal as this.
From: James Taylor on 23 Jan 2010 18:11 Rowland McDonnell wrote: > James Taylor wrote: > >> I've now witnessed you picking fights with several people >> here without provocation. > > <puzzled> But you have not. Yes, I have. First hand. No hearsay involved. > I've never done that once - please > apologize for your insulting lie. It's no lie, and if you were not unwell you'd be able to see how your behaviour comes across to others and why it is so counter-productive. > What actuallly happens is that people are extremely rude and > hostile to me, They are reacting to your behaviour! Can't you see? If you were to seek professional help, the counsellor would help you learn how to behave to get a better reaction from people, and you'd be a much happier person. > which scares me and upsets me and I sometimes respond badly > to such vicious nastiness. You seem to respond badly all the time. Perhaps you think that everyone is against you, and that everyone else's beliefs and statements directly threaten you and must be confronted aggressively. In therapy you'll learn that this is not the case, you just think it is. Learn how to deal with people productively and cooperatively and you'll get much further, be better liked, and be happier overall. >> Your trollish behaviour brings the whole group down. You owe it to >> yourself and to others to seek professional help with your illness. > > And you're being deliberately insulting here, James. Which bit do you find insulting? Your aggressive and provocative behaviour is trolling. Perhaps you have fallen into a pattern of emotionally feeding off the attention that trolling gives you, but this never brings lasting reward. I really think that you can find a better way to deal with people if you take the time to learn how, and this is what a counsellor can teach you. > btw, you might like to know that I'm in this bad a state *because* I > sought help for my mental health problems. It was serious medical abuse > that turned me into the screaming wreck I am now. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Maybe you had a bad experience in the past, but that's no reason not to try again with a different therapist. > And for several years, my PCT has denied me access to any local health > care so I can't get anything at all by way of health care. > > Nothing - I'm banned. I have not yet been able to find out why. It's worth persevering. You'll find a way if you try hard enough. > Please keep your nose out of my private affairs. Well, it's no skin off my nose if you fester in the miserable state you're in now, but as a fellow human I ought at least encourage you to find a path back to mental health, happiness. and fulfilment. You're just ill, like someone with diabetes or a liver condition, except for you it's your mental condition. Why stay in your current state, getting more and more angry and depressed, if you can do something about it? -- James Taylor
From: D.M. Procida on 23 Jan 2010 18:36 James Taylor <usenet(a)oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote: > They are reacting to your behaviour! Can't you see? If you were to seek > professional help, the counsellor would help you learn how to behave to > get a better reaction from people, and you'd be a much happier person. > > Well, it's no skin off my nose if you fester in the miserable state > you're in now, but as a fellow human I ought at least encourage you to > find a path back to mental health, happiness. and fulfilment. You're > just ill, like someone with diabetes or a liver condition, except for > you it's your mental condition. Why stay in your current state, getting > more and more angry and depressed, if you can do something about it? I don't want to comment about Rowland's problems, whatever they are, but I hope you can see that while having diabetes or a liver condition doesn't in itself affect the sufferer's ability to try to do something about their illness, having a mental illness quite often does (not least because it can make it impossible for them to recognise that they are suffering from a mental illness). A counsellour might well be able to provide a generally-healthy person deal with a crisis, and address problems such as stress or panic-attacks or inappropriate reactions or even long-term addiction. That's not going to work with a dead-seated disorder. Psychosis or paranoia, for example, or depression, will be a quite different kettle of fish. Daniele
From: James Taylor on 24 Jan 2010 02:51 D.M. Procida wrote: > James Taylor wrote: > >> Well, it's no skin off my nose if you fester in the miserable state >> you're in now, but as a fellow human I ought at least encourage you to >> find a path back to mental health, happiness, and fulfilment. You're >> just ill, like someone with diabetes or a liver condition, except for >> you it's your mental condition. Why stay in your current state, getting >> more and more angry and depressed, if you can do something about it? > > I don't want to comment about Rowland's problems, whatever they are, but > I hope you can see that while having diabetes or a liver condition > doesn't in itself affect the sufferer's ability to try to do something > about their illness, having a mental illness quite often does (not least > because it can make it impossible for them to recognise that they are > suffering from a mental illness). Oh sure, that's often true. But in Rowland's case he himself admits that he has mental health problems, so the hurdle of recognition is already overcome. Now he just needs to *do* something about it. -- James Taylor
From: James Taylor on 24 Jan 2010 05:26
James Jolley wrote: > I'd disregard whatever Danielle has to say I've never had a problem with Daniele. He seems generally well informed and is certainly economical with his words. -- James Taylor |