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From: James Jolley on 24 Jan 2010 05:30 On 2010-01-24 10:26:10 +0000, James Taylor <usenet(a)oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid> said: > James Jolley wrote: > >> I'd disregard whatever Danielle has to say > > I've never had a problem with Daniele. He seems generally well informed > and is certainly economical with his words. And the facts.
From: D.M. Procida on 24 Jan 2010 06:01 James Taylor <usenet(a)oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote: > > I don't want to comment about Rowland's problems, whatever they are, but > > I hope you can see that while having diabetes or a liver condition > > doesn't in itself affect the sufferer's ability to try to do something > > about their illness, having a mental illness quite often does (not least > > because it can make it impossible for them to recognise that they are > > suffering from a mental illness). > > Oh sure, that's often true. But in Rowland's case he himself admits that > he has mental health problems, so the hurdle of recognition is already > overcome. Now he just needs to *do* something about it. Again, without wishing to comment about Rowland, it's not enough to recognise that one has a mental illness; one has to recognise more or less accurately what that illness actually is, and also recognise more or less what counts as doing something about it, not to mention being able to take action. Daniele
From: zoara on 24 Jan 2010 07:36 James Taylor <usenet(a)oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote: > D.M. Procida wrote: > > > I don't want to comment about Rowland's problems, whatever they are, > > but > > I hope you can see that while having diabetes or a liver condition > > doesn't in itself affect the sufferer's ability to try to do > > something > > about their illness, having a mental illness quite often does (not > > least > > because it can make it impossible for them to recognise that they > > are > > suffering from a mental illness). > > Oh sure, that's often true. But in Rowland's case he himself admits > that > he has mental health problems, so the hurdle of recognition is already > > overcome. Now he just needs to *do* something about it. A further hurdle that is likely with mental illness is a judgement as to what is the right thing to do about it, or even whether it's worth doing anything about it. Depression is particularly good at making the sufferer believe that it's not worth trying to solve the problem, as it is "obvious" that the problem simply cannot be solved. Someone I know well is going through exactly this right now - they are fully aware they are depressed (fortunately not too badly) but refuse to seek help as they've resigned themselves to "always feeling this way". And it appears very much to be the depression itself that is making them so resigned. I don't speak for Rowland or his case (or anyone else fr that matter) in any of this - I simply want to point out that "curing" of mental illness isn't always as clear-cut and obvious as those of us who are not (currently?) suffering from mental illness might believe. -zoara- -- email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: James Taylor on 24 Jan 2010 13:19 zoara wrote: > Someone I know well is going through exactly this right now - they are > fully aware they are depressed (fortunately not too badly) but refuse to > seek help as they've resigned themselves to "always feeling this way". I've been through a few periods of severe depression myself, and it's a kind of torment I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. But I also know from experience that it doesn't last forever and is thus not something that you should resign yourself to. Indeed, with hindsight I have noticed that there are definite triggers such as stress, loneliness, stifled creativity, grief, etc. I have since been able to head-off bouts of depression before they deepen beyond the point of escape, by correcting the causes, stresses, loneliness or frustration that (for me at least) tend to precipitate it. The message I would wish to give anyone suffering depression is that it is not the real you, it's just an unwelcome intrusion into your mind that takes over like a squatter. It clouds your judgement in order to sink its parasitic claws in deeper. But it is simply an illness. Instead of thinking of yourself as unworthy, be angry at the *illness* for robbing you of the joy you once felt for life. Even if you feel hopeless already, you should fight it tooth and claw until you conquer it, because beyond those dark clouds a bright dawn is waiting. > I don't speak for Rowland or his case (or anyone else fr that matter) > in any of this - I simply want to point out that "curing" of mental > illness isn't always as clear-cut and obvious as those of us who are > not (currently?) suffering from mental illness might believe. I accept that, but my message to them is to never give up. You *can* get your life back, and live as happy and fulfilled as ever. If Rowland has already been in therapy, and already recognises that he is mentally ill, then he only needs to go that extra step and keep up the treatment. Personally, I think he should not be spending time here in this group arguing with people, because that will only make him feel worse. Perhaps he comes here for much needed social contact, but he is only falling into a pattern of self-fulfilling antagonism that deepens his sense of victimisation and isolation. Instead he needs the face-to-face contact of real friends and family who in turn should be very patient and supportive to help him through. -- James Taylor
From: Peter Ceresole on 24 Jan 2010 13:58
James Taylor <usenet(a)oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote: > I've been through a few periods of severe depression myself, and it's a > kind of torment I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I worked with a (molecular) scientist, who I greatly admired (and whose name has simply disappeared from my memory) who suffered from depression and wrote a fascinating, very dry book about it. In it he says that it was by far the worst experience of his life, and admitted that it was actually worse for him than his wife dying of cancer. He got himself out of it with a course of cognitive therapy. The point about real depression is that it's not caused by something external. It's chemical change in your own brain, causing a direct effect, not mediated by some external event or tha failure of some other part of your body. Absolutely horrid. -- Peter |