Global warming?
in [Design]
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From: Bill Sloman on 12 Jan 2010 05:39 On Jan 11, 3:06 pm, Jim Yanik <jya...(a)abuse.gov> wrote: > Charlie E. <edmond...(a)ieee.org> wrote innews:ir4lk550l6gd3rmiugp7dnj0i9de7jnn76(a)4ax.com: > > > > > > > On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:25:55 +0000, Nobody <nob...(a)nowhere.com> wrote: > > >>Or, more glibly: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". > > >>The people claiming that isolated weather measurements are evidence > >>for or against climate change (but note: it's only ever the deniers > >>who do this) *know* that the argument is nonsense. It's essentially a > >>"shibboleth", a means by which members of the tribe can identify > >>themselves to each other. > > > Only deniers? When for years, every hurricane, tornado, or heat spell > > was just another indicator of global warming? Where have you been? > > > ;-) > > > Charlie > > IMO,the use of "deniers" is a clue that the poster is a "denier" themself.. > > It's NOT a "settled issue". Jim Yanik believes that there is a communist under every bed. His opinion on the validity of the scientific case for anthropogenic global warming is unlikely to be more reliable. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
From: Jim Yanik on 12 Jan 2010 09:01 hal-usenet(a)ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) wrote in news:w9idnRkMbNyTu9HWnZ2dnUVZ_jli4p2d(a)megapath.net: > >>I see lots of panels bolted to roofs. What happens when the roof needs >>to be replaced? > > I assume you lift them up, fix the roof, and put them back down. well,REMOVE them,and then work on the roof,-then- replace the panels. > Roofs last ballpark of 30 years. What's the lifetime of solar panels? I've seen 30 years cited. > > Friends have some. They are happy. I think they are breaking even, > but I don't know what the payback time is. > > They report that they have to wash the dust off occasionally during > the summer. That's roughly monthly. I wonder what the power decrease is in the interval between washings? > and one hailstorm (or hurricane) will trash them. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com
From: John Larkin on 12 Jan 2010 10:20 On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:01:19 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik(a)abuse.gov> wrote: >hal-usenet(a)ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) wrote in >news:w9idnRkMbNyTu9HWnZ2dnUVZ_jli4p2d(a)megapath.net: > >> >>>I see lots of panels bolted to roofs. What happens when the roof needs >>>to be replaced? >> >> I assume you lift them up, fix the roof, and put them back down. > >well,REMOVE them,and then work on the roof,-then- replace the panels. > >> Roofs last ballpark of 30 years. What's the lifetime of solar panels? > >I've seen 30 years cited. >> >> Friends have some. They are happy. I think they are breaking even, >> but I don't know what the payback time is. >> >> They report that they have to wash the dust off occasionally during >> the summer. That's roughly monthly. > >I wonder what the power decrease is in the interval between washings? > >> > >and one hailstorm (or hurricane) will trash them. How many people will die from falling off roofs while washing solar panels? Solar may make some sense, but individual rooftop solar makes a lot less. The economy of scale is all wrong. John
From: Michael A. Terrell on 12 Jan 2010 11:06 Don Klipstein wrote: > > In <rLidnR6YANs2h9TWnZ2dnUVZ_h1i4p2d(a)earthlink.com>, M. A. Terrell wrote: > > > >John Larkin wrote: > >> > >> On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 17:58:23 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman > >> <bill.sloman(a)ieee.org> wrote: > >> > >> >On Jan 9, 1:16 am, Mark <makol...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> > And you are sufficiently ill-informed to think that simulating simple, > >> >> > isolated dynamic systems gives you the background knowledge required > >> >> > to judge climate simulations. This is funny enough to amuse even me. > >> >> > >> >> > Thanks for the entertainment. > >> >> > >> >> > -- > >> >> >Bill Sloman, Nijmegen > >> >> > >> >> Yes, as a matter of fact... > >> >> > >> >> my experience simulating "simple" electronic systems gives me enough > >> >> knowledge to know that a simulation of a system as complex as the > >> >> global climate cannot be trusted with sufficient confidence that > >> >> the results could be used as the basis for major policy decisions. > >> > > >> >Right. And you'd take a climatologist's word on the effectiveness of > >> >Spice in simulating electronic circuits. > >> > >> When engineers simulate circuits, they usually follow up by actually > >> building them and making them work. A few years of doing this gives > >> some serious loop-closing to our judgement of how far to trust > >> simulation. Climatologists can't do this; all they can say is that > >> their simulations are practically useless over observable time > >> frames... which somehow gives some of them confidence that their sims > >> are accurate over non-observable time frames. > > > > > > There is more data availible to predict the path of a hurricane, and > >they are rarely even close. They have worked on those models for > >decades. > > <SNIP from here> > > As it turns out, I have been quite impressed with hurricane forecasts > from 2003 and onward, starting with forecasts for Isabelle of September > 2003. You don't live in 'Hurricane Ally' where you need accurate information, and what they offer changes every couple hours. -- Greed is the root of all eBay.
From: Michael A. Terrell on 12 Jan 2010 11:08
Robert Baer wrote: > > John Larkin wrote: > > On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 05:58:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" > > <mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > > > >> No damn way! > >> > >> It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are > >> forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold > >> spells on record with another cold front headed this way. > > > > > > Get used to it. > > > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1242011/DAVID-ROSE-The-mini-ice-age-starts-here.html > > > > > > John > > > > > I understand that the iguanas in Florida are dying because it is too > cold... I had heard that they were falling out of trees, but nothing about them dying. -- Greed is the root of all eBay. |