Global warming?
in [Design]
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From: Michael A. Terrell on 29 Jan 2010 04:28 Don Klipstein wrote: > > In article <4B6213C7.DB7B92D5(a)earthlink.net>, Michael A. Terrell wrote: > > > >Uwe Hercksen wrote: > >> > >> Michael A. Terrell schrieb: > >> > >> > It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are > >> > forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold > >> > spells on record with another cold front headed this way. > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> one very cold winter and you foget all the very mild winters of the last > >> decades? Wait for the winters of the next decades and the next very cold > >> one. > > > > Sigh. Do you know where Ocala is? Or that the entire region used to > >be full of citrus groves? Maybe you missed that they all froze out and > >died, after 150 years? Do you know 'anything' other than politically > >motivated BS? Do you ever think for yourself? > > The way I hear it, central Florida got colder than recently in the early > 1980's and in January 1977, and there was a freeze even in the Orlando > area in January 1963. > > - Don Klipstein (don(a)misty.com) Sigh. A couple hours is one thing. Days or a full week of freezing temperatures is what kills the trees. After several minor freezes they stopped replacing older trees. This was the longest sustained cold spell in a long time. Citrus production has continually moved south since those freezes. I spent 10 years on 25 acres that had been an Orange grove in Lake County. That is about 45 minutes north of Orlando. My uncle bought the grove because of some damaged trees from the freezes in the '70s & '80s. The owner was in the hospital and needed the money. Then it took him a couple years to cut down dead trees and remove all the stumps. If the limbs of an orange tree are damaged, the tree is useless, even if it survives. The trees have grafts from other trees to produce edible oranges. You wouldn't want one grown on a natural orange tree. -- Greed is the root of all eBay.
From: Don Klipstein on 30 Jan 2010 01:26 In article <mrs4m5hld6sdfnid81duu9bu6gru7hlbru(a)4ax.com>, John Larkin wrote: >On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 05:58:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" ><mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > >> >>No damn way! >> >>It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are >>forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold >>spells on record with another cold front headed this way. > >http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100127134721.htm I would take with a big grain of salt results of temp-vs-CO2 through a time period (1050-1850) when temperature record is a big matter of debate, CO2 response is slow enough for its MWP response to possibly be impaired by (according to some reconstructions) a shortly preceding cold spell more than half as great as the Little Ice Age, and depth of the Little Ice Age may have been too brief to have usual degree of effect on CO2. I would put more faith into any or any combination of the following: 1. Working from what I have heard is a "derived-from-IPCC" (my words) CO2 feedback figure of .25 W/m^2 per degree of warming, and a likely from-IPCC figure of CO2 effect before feedbacks amounting to 3.34 W/m^2 (that I worked out) for a doubling of CO2 and response to CO2 change being proportional to log of ratio expression of CO2 change, I figure "CO2 feedback" expressed as temperature increase increasing CO2 to be 5.23 % gain in atmospheric CO2 from 1 degree C/K of warming. I would like to consider this "maybe high side". 2. Reconstructions of global temperature and atmospheric CO2 cited by Wikipedia through the past few 100,000's years appear to me to have CO2 varying from 180 to 280 PPMV as a result of temperature variation of 9 degrees C/K. 9th root of 280/180 is 1.0503. This is 5.03% increase of CO2 from 1 degree temperature increase. Make that 4.76% if 280/180 ratio is response to a 9.5 degree temperature increase, or 4.52% if 280/180 ratio is response to a 10 degree temperature increase. 3: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gases-solubility-water-d_1148.html Looks to me, with CO2 pressure at "atmospheric pressure", solubility is 1.7 grams/kg at 20 C and 2.55 grams/kg at 10 C, ratio of 1.5 over 10 degrees. Oversimplifying this into an exponential curve, ratio of gas/solute increases by 4.14% for 1 degree temperature increase. With CO2 partial pressure in this case being around 3-3.5 orders of magnitude above current, past and projected-near-future atmospheric CO2 partial pressure, the solution has pH varying a bit significantly with amount of CO2 dissolved, likely more than has been past few hundred thousand years history of the oceans. That may change a little the temperature sensitivity of ratio of CO2 (and carbonic acid) solute to partial pressure of CO2 gas, and reciprocal of this ratio. ==================== Then again, I am expecting this feedback over the next at least 1 century, likely 2, to merely reduce (in comparison to lack of this feedback) ocean removal of CO2 being added to the atmosphere. - Don Klipstein (don(a)misty.com)
From: Rich Grise on Google groups on 30 Jan 2010 16:30 On Jan 28, 2:46 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > > Sigh. Do you know where Ocala is? Or that the entire region used to > be full of citrus groves? Maybe you missed that they all froze out and > died, after 150 years? Do you know 'anything' other than politically > motivated BS? Do you ever think for yourself? Do you? Thanks, Rich
From: John Larkin on 30 Jan 2010 17:59 On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 05:58:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > >No damn way! > >It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are >forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold >spells on record with another cold front headed this way. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7111525/UN-climate-change-panel-based-claims-on-student-dissertation-and-magazine-article.html http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/01/28/save-rainforest-climate-change-scandal-chopped-facts/ John
From: Michael A. Terrell on 30 Jan 2010 18:09
John Larkin wrote: > > On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 05:58:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" > <mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > > > > >No damn way! > > > >It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are > >forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold > >spells on record with another cold front headed this way. > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7111525/UN-climate-change-panel-based-claims-on-student-dissertation-and-magazine-article.html > > http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/01/28/save-rainforest-climate-change-scandal-chopped-facts/ > > John It just keeps piling up, doesn't it? The only thing 'melting' is their pack of lies. :) -- Greed is the root of all eBay. |