Gravity is a property of mass - not a property of space !!
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From: Y.Porat on 12 Jul 2010 09:56 On Jul 12, 2:33 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 12, 1:54 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 12, 6:34 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 11, 3:16 pm, bert <herbertglazie...(a)msn.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 11, 12:33 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 11, 12:23 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 8:21 am, Surfer <n...(a)spam.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:19:42 -0700 (PDT), "Y.Porat" > > > > > > > > <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >.... > > > > > > > > An alternative to the idea of curved space-time, is that matter chews > > > > > > > up space, thus causing space to accelerate into matter. > > > > > > > > The downward acceleration of space past us into the earth, then causes > > > > > > > us to feel the "force" of gravity, in the same way as how we feel > > > > > > > pushed backward, when an accelerating vehicle causes us to accelerate > > > > > > > relative to space. > > > > > > > > This model also explains the gravitational slowing of clocks, without > > > > > > > the need to use GR. > > > > > > > >http://home.epix.net/~hhlindner/Writings/Space/Physics.html > > > > > > > > <Start extract> > > > > > > > > If inertial space flows into the Earth as a fluid into a sink, then it > > > > > > > must have not only an acceleration at any given radial distance, r, > > > > > > > but also a determinate velocity. Its velocity at the Earth's surface > > > > > > > ought to be the sum of its total acceleration from rest at infinite > > > > > > > distance to the Earth's surface. This velocity should be identical to > > > > > > > Newton's escape velocity--the initial velocity that allows any object > > > > > > > on the surface of a large mass to escape that mass's gravitational > > > > > > > field. Thus at the Earth's surface, space should be moving radially > > > > > > > Earthward at sqrt(2 G M/r) , or 112km/s. > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > If, as the evidence suggests, it is velocity in physical space, not > > > > > > > merely relative velocity, that red shifts atomic spectra and slows > > > > > > > atomic clocks, then an atomic clock held stationary at any given > > > > > > > height in a gravitational field should slow just as if it were moving > > > > > > > at the escape velocity for that height. This is indeed the case. The > > > > > > > accepted formula for the gravitational slowing of atomic clocks is: > > > > > > > > Delta_v/v = 1 - sqrt(1 - 2 G M /rc^2) > > > > > > > > Since v^2 = 2 G M/r in our model of gravitational space flow, the > > > > > > > gravitational red shift formula is identical to that for the > > > > > > > transverse Doppler shift: > > > > > > > > Delta_v/v = 1 - sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) > > > > > > > > Thus the expected velocity of space at a given height in a > > > > > > > gravitational field correctly predicts the slowing of atomic clocks at > > > > > > > that height. We have thus derived the formula for the gravitational > > > > > > > red shift from a simple physical hypothesis and produced a physical > > > > > > > link between the mechanical effects of gravity and its effects on > > > > > > > atomic spectra. > > > > > > > > <End extract> > > > > > > > Dark matter displaced by matter is more correct. > > > > > > > Space does not flow into the Earth. > > > > > > > Matter displaces dark matter. > > > > > > Dark matter is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'. > > > > > > The 'displacing back' is pressure exerted by displaced dark matter. > > > > > > Pressure exerted by displaced dark matter towards matter is gravity. > > > > > > > You are mistaking the pressure exerted by displaced dark matter as a > > > > > > 'flow'. > > > > > > > Gravitation, the 'Dark Matter' Effect and the Fine Structure Constanthttp://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0401047 > > > > > > > "There we see the first arguments that indicate the logical necessity > > > > > > for quantum behaviour, at both the spatial level and at the matter > > > > > > level. There space is, at one of the lowest levels, a quantumfoam > > > > > > system undergoing ongoing classicalisation. That model suggest that > > > > > > gravity is caused by matter changing the processing rate of the > > > > > > informational system that manifests as space, and as a consequence > > > > > > space effectively flows towards matter. However this is not a flow > > > > > > of some form of matter through space, as previously considered in > > > > > > the aether models or in the random particulate Le Sage kinetic > > > > > > theory of gravity, rather the flow is an ongoing rearrangement of the > > > > > > quantum-foam patterns that form space, and indeed only have a > > > > > > geometrical description at a coarse-grained level. Then the flow in > > > > > > one region is relative only to the patterns in nearby regions, and not > > > > > > relative to some a priori background geometrical space" > > > > > > > What is described as "space effectively flows towards matter" is the > > > > > > pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter towards the matter. > > > > > > > "Then the flow in one region is relative only to the patterns in > > > > > > nearby regions" is the pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter > > > > > > towards the matter and the pressure exerted by the displaced dark > > > > > > matter in nearby regions towards the matter. > > > > > > Evidence of dark matter displacement: > > > > > > 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_featur... > > > > > > "The simulations show that when the two clusters smash together, the > > > > > dark matter falls to the center of the combined cluster and sloshes > > > > > back out." > > > > > > "Astronomers using NASAs Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view > > > > > of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two > > > > > galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is > > > > > somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the > > > > > water." > > > > > > A rock creates a ripple by displacing the water in a pond. > > > > > > The two galaxy cluster collision is analogous to a collision between > > > > > two boats. The two boats colliding creates a ripple in the water. The > > > > > ripple occurs because the boats displace water. > > > > > > The ripple occurs because the galaxy clusters displace dark matter.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > Gravity is a concave curve in space(einstein) Space energy makes a > > > > convex curve (Glazier) TreBert > > > > Evidence of dark matter displacement: > > > > 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_featur... > > > > "The simulations show that when the two clusters smash together, the > > > dark matter falls to the center of the combined cluster and sloshes > > > back out." > > > > "Astronomers using NASAs Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view > > > of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two > > > galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is > > > somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the > > > water." > > > > A rock creates a ripple by displacing the water in a pond. > > > > The two galaxy cluster collision is analogous to a collision between > > > two boats. The two boat collision creates a ripple in the water. The > > > ripple occurs because the boats displace water. > > > > The ripple occurs because the galaxy clusters displace dark matter. > > > ------------------ > > so very nice!! > > a ring fits the 'Circlon' idea !!! > > ie > > basic particles that > > MOVES NATURALLY IN A CLOSED CIRCLE!! > > The Moon's 'naturally' orbits the Earth because of the pressure > exerted towards the Earth by the dark matter displaced by the Earth. > The Earth 'naturally' orbits the Sun because of the pressure exerted > towards the Sun by the dark matter displaced by the Sun. > ---------------------- why should the dfark matter pressure th earth to sun?? while it is alleged to do it the earth is rweacting back and pushes the dark matter outwards that is conservation of momentum!!! does your dark matter obey conservation of momentum?? if so earth is reacting and pushing back outwared so waht should your dark matter not be relected tothe endless universe by that action if you will yell me that other dark amtetr is pushing the first one inside i will go on and on and ask you and why should that **second layer**"" of dark matter be pushed outide to the endless of universe etc etc i hope you got my question (if not i will explain it again ) that i was asking myself more than 1`0 years ago (:-) and mind you that is a key question toundersatnd my 'Circlon' !!! TIA Y.Porat ------------------------- >
From: mpc755 on 12 Jul 2010 11:59 On Jul 12, 9:56 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 12, 2:33 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jul 12, 1:54 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 12, 6:34 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 11, 3:16 pm, bert <herbertglazie...(a)msn.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 11, 12:33 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 12:23 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 8:21 am, Surfer <n...(a)spam.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:19:42 -0700 (PDT), "Y.Porat" > > > > > > > > > <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >.... > > > > > > > > > An alternative to the idea of curved space-time, is that matter chews > > > > > > > > up space, thus causing space to accelerate into matter. > > > > > > > > > The downward acceleration of space past us into the earth, then causes > > > > > > > > us to feel the "force" of gravity, in the same way as how we feel > > > > > > > > pushed backward, when an accelerating vehicle causes us to accelerate > > > > > > > > relative to space. > > > > > > > > > This model also explains the gravitational slowing of clocks, without > > > > > > > > the need to use GR. > > > > > > > > >http://home.epix.net/~hhlindner/Writings/Space/Physics.html > > > > > > > > > <Start extract> > > > > > > > > > If inertial space flows into the Earth as a fluid into a sink, then it > > > > > > > > must have not only an acceleration at any given radial distance, r, > > > > > > > > but also a determinate velocity. Its velocity at the Earth's surface > > > > > > > > ought to be the sum of its total acceleration from rest at infinite > > > > > > > > distance to the Earth's surface. This velocity should be identical to > > > > > > > > Newton's escape velocity--the initial velocity that allows any object > > > > > > > > on the surface of a large mass to escape that mass's gravitational > > > > > > > > field. Thus at the Earth's surface, space should be moving radially > > > > > > > > Earthward at sqrt(2 G M/r) , or 112km/s. > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > If, as the evidence suggests, it is velocity in physical space, not > > > > > > > > merely relative velocity, that red shifts atomic spectra and slows > > > > > > > > atomic clocks, then an atomic clock held stationary at any given > > > > > > > > height in a gravitational field should slow just as if it were moving > > > > > > > > at the escape velocity for that height. This is indeed the case. The > > > > > > > > accepted formula for the gravitational slowing of atomic clocks is: > > > > > > > > > Delta_v/v = 1 - sqrt(1 - 2 G M /rc^2) > > > > > > > > > Since v^2 = 2 G M/r in our model of gravitational space flow, the > > > > > > > > gravitational red shift formula is identical to that for the > > > > > > > > transverse Doppler shift: > > > > > > > > > Delta_v/v = 1 - sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) > > > > > > > > > Thus the expected velocity of space at a given height in a > > > > > > > > gravitational field correctly predicts the slowing of atomic clocks at > > > > > > > > that height. We have thus derived the formula for the gravitational > > > > > > > > red shift from a simple physical hypothesis and produced a physical > > > > > > > > link between the mechanical effects of gravity and its effects on > > > > > > > > atomic spectra. > > > > > > > > > <End extract> > > > > > > > > Dark matter displaced by matter is more correct. > > > > > > > > Space does not flow into the Earth. > > > > > > > > Matter displaces dark matter. > > > > > > > Dark matter is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'. > > > > > > > The 'displacing back' is pressure exerted by displaced dark matter. > > > > > > > Pressure exerted by displaced dark matter towards matter is gravity. > > > > > > > > You are mistaking the pressure exerted by displaced dark matter as a > > > > > > > 'flow'. > > > > > > > > Gravitation, the 'Dark Matter' Effect and the Fine Structure Constanthttp://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0401047 > > > > > > > > "There we see the first arguments that indicate the logical necessity > > > > > > > for quantum behaviour, at both the spatial level and at the matter > > > > > > > level. There space is, at one of the lowest levels, a quantumfoam > > > > > > > system undergoing ongoing classicalisation. That model suggest that > > > > > > > gravity is caused by matter changing the processing rate of the > > > > > > > informational system that manifests as space, and as a consequence > > > > > > > space effectively flows towards matter. However this is not a flow > > > > > > > of some form of matter through space, as previously considered in > > > > > > > the aether models or in the random particulate Le Sage kinetic > > > > > > > theory of gravity, rather the flow is an ongoing rearrangement of the > > > > > > > quantum-foam patterns that form space, and indeed only have a > > > > > > > geometrical description at a coarse-grained level. Then the flow in > > > > > > > one region is relative only to the patterns in nearby regions, and not > > > > > > > relative to some a priori background geometrical space" > > > > > > > > What is described as "space effectively flows towards matter" is the > > > > > > > pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter towards the matter. > > > > > > > > "Then the flow in one region is relative only to the patterns in > > > > > > > nearby regions" is the pressure exerted by the displaced dark matter > > > > > > > towards the matter and the pressure exerted by the displaced dark > > > > > > > matter in nearby regions towards the matter. > > > > > > > Evidence of dark matter displacement: > > > > > > > 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_featur... > > > > > > > "The simulations show that when the two clusters smash together, the > > > > > > dark matter falls to the center of the combined cluster and sloshes > > > > > > back out." > > > > > > > "Astronomers using NASAs Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view > > > > > > of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two > > > > > > galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is > > > > > > somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the > > > > > > water." > > > > > > > A rock creates a ripple by displacing the water in a pond. > > > > > > > The two galaxy cluster collision is analogous to a collision between > > > > > > two boats. The two boats colliding creates a ripple in the water. The > > > > > > ripple occurs because the boats displace water. > > > > > > > The ripple occurs because the galaxy clusters displace dark matter.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > Gravity is a concave curve in space(einstein) Space energy makes a > > > > > convex curve (Glazier) TreBert > > > > > Evidence of dark matter displacement: > > > > > 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_featur... > > > > > "The simulations show that when the two clusters smash together, the > > > > dark matter falls to the center of the combined cluster and sloshes > > > > back out." > > > > > "Astronomers using NASAs Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view > > > > of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two > > > > galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is > > > > somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the > > > > water." > > > > > A rock creates a ripple by displacing the water in a pond. > > > > > The two galaxy cluster collision is analogous to a collision between > > > > two boats. The two boat collision creates a ripple in the water. The > > > > ripple occurs because the boats displace water. > > > > > The ripple occurs because the galaxy clusters displace dark matter. > > > > ------------------ > > > so very nice!! > > > a ring fits the 'Circlon' idea !!! > > > ie > > > basic particles that > > > MOVES NATURALLY IN A CLOSED CIRCLE!! > > > The Moon's 'naturally' orbits the Earth because of the pressure > > exerted towards the Earth by the dark matter displaced by the Earth. > > The Earth 'naturally' orbits the Sun because of the pressure exerted > > towards the Sun by the dark matter displaced by the Sun. > > ---------------------- > > why should the dfark matter pressure > th earth to sun?? > while it is alleged to do it > the earth is rweacting back > and pushes the dark matter outwards > that is conservation of momentum!!! > does your dark matter obey conservation of momentum?? > Both the Earth and the Sun displace dark matter. The displaced dark matter extends past both the Sun and Earth. This is why most dark matter is detected outside of galaxy clusters. Matter displaces dark matter. The dark matter displaced by both the Sun and the Earth 'surrounds' both and displaces back. The displaced dark matter which 'surrounds' both the Earth and Sun exerts pressure towards both. > if so earth is reacting and pushing back outwared > so > waht should your dark matter not be relected tothe > endless universe by that action > if you will yell me that other dark amtetr is pushing the first one > inside > i will go on and on and ask you > and why should that **second layer**"" of dark matter be pushed outide > to the endless of universe > etc etc > i hope you got my question > (if not i will explain it again ) > that i was asking myself more than 1`0 years ago (:-) > and mind you > that is a key question toundersatnd my > 'Circlon' !!! > TIA > Y.Porat > ------------------------- > > > >
From: PD on 12 Jul 2010 13:45 On Jul 11, 4:19 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Gravity is a property of mass!! > it is *not* a property of space! Gravity is not a property. It is an interaction. It involves matter's and energy's interaction with spacetime, and spacetime's interaction with matter and energy. > > now of curved space time or other nonsense physic s alike !! > peoplehave lost too muchtime on that nonsense > curved space time > gravity should be loked in some basic mass particle > emitted from big masses > he Circlon'' might be a good start !! > the Circlon is a basic particle > that > 'moves naturally in curved or circular paths > naturallt mease it is a premise > ie > it does not move in a curved pass > because 'some forces make it move like that but = > but it moves in a curved path > 'because it was 'born' like that > and is actually the cause of all atractin froces > iow > it is a premis > exactly as 'curved space trime is another *premis* > > the photon cannot be an attraction agent > because it moves in a **straight lines** > and if so to be an attraction agent is against the > conservation of Momentum principle > (the momentum has direction ...!!) > 2 > another nonsense attraction particle are the W or Z > > AN ATTRACTION AGENT CANNOT BE BIGGER THAN ITS MOTHER > PARTICLE !!! > etc etc etc nonsense physics that 'modern physics'' > is filled with > without any one eating it without blinking an eye!! > (mainly fucken mathematicians > that lead us toi a dead end position !!!) > > Y.Porat > --------------------------------------
From: mpc755 on 12 Jul 2010 14:40 On Jul 12, 1:45 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 11, 4:19 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Gravity is a property of mass!! > > it is *not* a property of space! > > Gravity is not a property. It is an interaction. It involves matter's > and energy's interaction with spacetime, and spacetime's interaction > with matter and energy. > And exactly what is the physical interaction between matter and energy and spacetime which causes gravity to exist? Evidence of dark matter displacement: 'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter' http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_feature.html "The simulations show that when the two clusters smash together, the dark matter falls to the center of the combined cluster and sloshes back out." "Astronomers using NASAs Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the water." A rock creates a ripple by displacing the water in a pond. The two galaxy cluster collision is analogous to a collision between two boats. The two boats colliding creates a ripple in the water. The ripple occurs because the boats displace water. The ripple occurs because the galaxy clusters displace dark matter. Pressure exerted by displaced dark matter towards matter is gravity. > > > > now of curved space time or other nonsense physic s alike !! > > peoplehave lost too muchtime on that nonsense > > curved space time > > gravity should be loked in some basic mass particle > > emitted from big masses > > he Circlon'' might be a good start !! > > the Circlon is a basic particle > > that > > 'moves naturally in curved or circular paths > > naturallt mease it is a premise > > ie > > it does not move in a curved pass > > because 'some forces make it move like that but = > > but it moves in a curved path > > 'because it was 'born' like that > > and is actually the cause of all atractin froces > > iow > > it is a premis > > exactly as 'curved space trime is another *premis* > > > the photon cannot be an attraction agent > > because it moves in a **straight lines** > > and if so to be an attraction agent is against the > > conservation of Momentum principle > > (the momentum has direction ...!!) > > 2 > > another nonsense attraction particle are the W or Z > > > AN ATTRACTION AGENT CANNOT BE BIGGER THAN ITS MOTHER > > PARTICLE !!! > > etc etc etc nonsense physics that 'modern physics'' > > is filled with > > without any one eating it without blinking an eye!! > > (mainly fucken mathematicians > > that lead us toi a dead end position !!!) > > > Y.Porat > > -------------------------------------- > >
From: PD on 12 Jul 2010 16:17
On Jul 12, 1:40 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 12, 1:45 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jul 11, 4:19 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Gravity is a property of mass!! > > > it is *not* a property of space! > > > Gravity is not a property. It is an interaction. It involves matter's > > and energy's interaction with spacetime, and spacetime's interaction > > with matter and energy. > > And exactly what is the physical interaction between matter and energy > and spacetime which causes gravity to exist? > That is easily described by any book on general relativity. Would you like some recommended reading? PD |