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From: Jeffrey Goldberg on 6 Apr 2010 12:17 Sherm Pendley wrote: > Ian Gregory <ianji33(a)googlemail.com> writes: > >> On 2010-04-05, Sherm Pendley <spamtrap(a)shermpendley.com> wrote: >>> Ian Gregory <ianji33(a)googlemail.com> writes: >>> >>>> There is no "other side", a fact which >>> >>> ... is a belief, not a fact. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. >> >> Whatever. > > No, not "whatever." Words have meaning, and "belief" and "fact" do not > mean the same thing. First we need to recognize that nothing (with the possible exception of mathematical theorems) is known with absolute certainty. So if we want the word "fact" to have any *useful* meaning it needs to include things that for which our beliefs are sufficiently justified and close to certain to merit being called "knowledge". So for example, would you consider it a fact that the Sun (approximately) is the center of our solar system? Is the heliocentric view a "fact" for you? Then let's go to an absence of evidence case. Is it a fact for you that unicorns do not exist? And if so, what role does absence of evidence play in that conclusion. Basically there are cases in which absence of evidence is evidence of absence (as in the unicorn case). The question then is whether life after death is one of those cases. But before getting to that, you need to get beyond this "absence of evidence" slogan. -j -- Jeffrey Goldberg http://goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read HTML or poorly quoting posts Reply-To address is valid
From: Jeffrey Goldberg on 6 Apr 2010 12:22 John wrote: > In article <1jghlbz.1nw9kt917d6nhdN%mikePOST(a)TOGROUPmacconsult.com>, > mikePOST(a)TOGROUPmacconsult.com (Mike Rosenberg) wrote: > >> >> Don't go around forcing your opinion on others and then say it's >> "inappropriate" for others to respond with their opinions. > > You are right it was off topic. Don't worry Jesus forgives you. Two kids had become friends. One was a Christian and other an atheist. But the atheist thought that he would try out this religion thing, so he prays for a new bicycle. His Christian friend explains that that is not how pray works and goes on to explain about Christianity more carefully. The next day the atheist shows up with a new bicycle and thanks his friend for enlightening him. "You see," he says, "I stole this bicycle and prayed for forgiveness." -j -- Jeffrey Goldberg http://goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read HTML or poorly quoting posts Reply-To address is valid
From: Warren Oates on 6 Apr 2010 13:24 In article <8215drFjeuU1(a)mid.individual.net>, Jeffrey Goldberg <nobody(a)goldmark.org> wrote: > The next day the atheist shows up with a new bicycle and thanks his > friend for enlightening him. "You see," he says, "I stole this bicycle > and prayed for forgiveness." Emo Philips: "When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord, in his wisdom, didn't work that way. So I just stole one and asked him to forgive me." http://www.emophilips.com/home He also says: "How many here have telekinetic powers? Raise my hand." -- Very old woody beets will never cook tender. -- Fannie Farmer
From: Jeffrey Goldberg on 6 Apr 2010 13:52 [I'm removing c.i.www.authoring.html from follow-ups. Not that this is more appropriate in the Mac groups, but all of the participants appear to be regulars in the Mac group.] JF Mezei wrote: > even if we > can prove that there was a big bang which created propelled planet size > pebbles and stars to create our galaxies. But that still doesn't explain > the existance of the universe, space/time. So there is still room to > believe in some god. What you are presenting is known as a "god of the gaps" argument. A few thousand years ago, people didn't know what caused the seasons or the motions of the planets; these sorts of things were attributed to God. In those days, God literally lived in the seemingly unknowable and unreachable sky. Just 200 years ago, people didn't know where the complex design readily apparent in living things came from, and that was attributed to God. Over the millennia God has gotten a lot smaller because the gaps have gotten smaller. There will probably always be gaps in our understanding of the universe. But it makes for a rather pathetic notion of God. Such a god is a cockroach hiding in the ever shrinking shadows as human understanding illuminates more and more of the universe. > In terms of Jesus, it could very well be Jim Carey's idea of a practical > joke once time travel is invented: he goes back in time dressed as god > and appears at top of a mountain to give Moses the 10 commandments, then > travels to the year when Jesus becomes adult [...] This would be more interesting speculation if we were to give the gospels substantially more credibility than we give to the stories of a King Arthur. A bit that I snipped of what you wrote incorrectly presumes that the gospels were written by direct witnesses of the events described. But they weren't. The most optimistic reading is that the earliest was written at least 40 years later. But really we should be looking at about 100 years later. Cheers, -j -- Jeffrey Goldberg http://goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read HTML or poorly quoting posts Reply-To address is valid
From: Jeffrey Goldberg on 6 Apr 2010 13:55
Kurt Ullman wrote: > In article <4bba7562$0$14772$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot(a)vaxination.ca> wrote: > >> Once you die, you cannot do any more actions to change your legacy so it >> stays that way for eternity. > > I doubt it. History is always subject to being rewritten or at least > reinterpreted. Some may be forever, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc., but many will > be rehabed later on. In the Soviet days there were a series of "Radio Armenia" jokes. In this genre a listener writes in with a question that is answered on the air. Q: Dear Radio Armenia, is it true that through the blessings of scientific socialism the future course of history is known? A: Dear listener. Yes it is. Our science has established the future history absolutely. It is past history that keeps changing. Cheers, -j -- Jeffrey Goldberg http://goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read HTML or poorly quoting posts Reply-To address is valid |