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From: Nick Naym on 5 Apr 2010 16:51 In article m2mxxhaiqy.fsf(a)shermpendley.com, Sherm Pendley at spamtrap(a)shermpendley.com wrote on 4/5/10 1:53 PM: > Michelle Steiner <michelle(a)michelle.org> writes: > >> In article <m2hbnp6gbe.fsf(a)shermpendley.com>, >> Sherm Pendley <spamtrap(a)shermpendley.com> wrote: >> >>>> There is no "other side", a fact which >>> >>> ... is a belief, not a fact. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. >> >> The fact is that in all of recorded and oral histories, there has been no >> evidence of an other side. > > As I said - absence of proof is not proof of absence. "Proof" conjures up the notion of a mathematical proof. It really doesn't apply here. > You believe that > there is no "other side," and as it happens I also believe that - but > that's belief, not fact. A fact, by definition, can be tested and proven > to be true. The absence of an afterlife is no more testable than the > presence of one. > There is very little "fact" that can be determined as such by testing. Those that can are what we would call "Nature's Laws." But even those are limited by our testing apparatus, and, therefore, not "absolute." > sherm-- -- iMac (27", 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD) � OS X (10.6.3)
From: Nick Naym on 5 Apr 2010 16:51 In article michelle-72C0D7.11025705042010(a)news.eternal-september.org, Michelle Steiner at michelle(a)michelle.org wrote on 4/5/10 2:02 PM: > In article <m2mxxhaiqy.fsf(a)shermpendley.com>, > Sherm Pendley <spamtrap(a)shermpendley.com> wrote: > >>> The fact is that in all of recorded and oral histories, there has been >>> no evidence of an other side. >> >> As I said - absence of proof is not proof of absence. You believe that >> there is no "other side," and as it happens I also believe that - but >> that's belief, not fact. A fact, by definition, can be tested and proven >> to be true. The absence of an afterlife is no more testable than the >> presence of one. > > You're apparently forgetting about Occam's Razor. When something can > neither be proven nor disproven, there are other methods to determine which > is more likely. Or in this case, extemely likely. "Occam's Razor" was invented by a human being and, hence, strictly speaking is a prima facie principle. -- iMac (27", 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD) � OS X (10.6.3)
From: Nick Naym on 5 Apr 2010 16:51 In article m2bpdxah4z.fsf(a)shermpendley.com, Sherm Pendley at spamtrap(a)shermpendley.com wrote on 4/5/10 2:28 PM: > Michelle Steiner <michelle(a)michelle.org> writes: > >> In article <m2mxxhaiqy.fsf(a)shermpendley.com>, >> Sherm Pendley <spamtrap(a)shermpendley.com> wrote: >> >>>> The fact is that in all of recorded and oral histories, there has been >>>> no evidence of an other side. >>> >>> As I said - absence of proof is not proof of absence. You believe that >>> there is no "other side," and as it happens I also believe that - but >>> that's belief, not fact. A fact, by definition, can be tested and proven >>> to be true. The absence of an afterlife is no more testable than the >>> presence of one. >> >> You're apparently forgetting about Occam's Razor. > > No, just remembering the correct definition of the words "fact" and > "belief." > >> When something can >> neither be proven nor disproven > > ... that's when it becomes a question of belief, rather than fact. > > >> there are other methods to determine which >> is more likely. Or in this case, extemely likely. > > Occam's is a very reasonable basis upon which to form a belief, but > odds (no matter how high) are not proof. What would constitute "proof?" > > sherm-- -- iMac (27", 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD) � OS X (10.6.3)
From: Mike Rosenberg on 5 Apr 2010 16:59 Nick Naym <nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid> wrote: > > Anyway, to me Jesus is the name commonly used for Yeshua, the name of > > the central character in that little supplement that Christians appended > > to the Holy Scriptures and called The New Testament while renaming the > > Holy Scriptures themselves The Old Testament. > > > > If I were to die today, I'd go exactly where everyone else goes, just > > like you. And, just like you and every other living human being, having > > not died yet I have know idea where that is or what it's like, or ever > > if there's a "there" there. It's all explained by the parable of the > > blind men and the elephant. > > > > When I die, there won't be anything to "believe" since whatever I > > encounter (assuming there's anything to encounter) will be exactly what > > it is. As for meeting Jesus, if I get to meet characters from books > > after I die, I have to say I'd be much more interested in talking to > > Yossarian or Holden Caulfeld. Or perhaps Dorothy and Toto. > > You're wasting your breath. Meanwhile, if John would gain a fundamental understanding of the blind men and the elephant, he would truly be saved. Really, truly saved. Not, of course, in the metaphysical way he uses the term "saved" but in a literal way, as he would save all the time and effort he wastes on preaching unsubstantiated opinions. If only he were a believer... -- My latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi>
From: VAXman- on 5 Apr 2010 17:00
In article <C7DFC570.58126%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>, Nick Naym <nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid> writes: >In article slrnhrk7hl.2udv.ianji33(a)zenatode.org.uk, Ian Gregory at >ianji33(a)googlemail.com wrote on 4/5/10 1:30 PM: > >> On 2010-04-05, Sherm Pendley <spamtrap(a)shermpendley.com> wrote: >>> Ian Gregory <ianji33(a)googlemail.com> writes: >>> >>>> There is no "other side", a fact which >>> >>> ... is a belief, not a fact. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. >> >> Whatever. I believe that it is a fact. >> >> Ian > > >Do you also believe in angels? I do! I've seen them in Anaheim, CA. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG http://www.quirkfactory.com/popart/asskey/eqn2.png Yeah. You know, it occurs to me that the best way you hurt rich people is by turning them into poor people. -- Billy Ray Valentine |