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From: Graeme on 29 Jun 2010 03:19 In message <1jku4q3.1x3v9rp1hpiobpN%real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid (Rowland McDonnell) wrote: > Graeme <Graeme(a)greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > > Tim Streater <timstreater(a)waitrose.com> wrote: > > > > [snip] > > > > > > To which roads do you refer? Seems to me that in the early 1820s, > > > 1830s, > > <sigh> Can't any of you people be bothered to find out some facts, eh? > [snip] > > The Manchester-Liverpool railway opened in 1830 - the first steam powered > passenger railway in the world (unless you want to count fairground rides). > Wrong, wrong and thrice wrong. The Stockton & Darlington preceded it by 5 years. Though primarily a freight line, it carried passengers from the start. I'm not aware of any steam powered fairground rides at this early date, they were a product of the late 19th Century. -- Graeme Wall My genealogy website <www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/>
From: Dr Geoff Hone on 29 Jun 2010 04:40 On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:55:19 +0100, real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid (Rowland McDonnell) wrote: >Now then, let's deal with your mistaken idea that `toll roads long >preceded the railway development' and examine some of the facts. > >Toll roads *AND* railways *AND* canals were all well established >technology during the time of the ancient Romans - did you know that? > >The first big transport build after the Romans left was the toll road >and commercial canal network construction boom in the 18th century, >followed /immediately/ by the railway boom in the 19th century. > >It's in the history books - just pick one up, and you'll read it there, >Geoff. Deny history all you like - you'll just be making a fool of >yourself. Take your own advice - but no, you never will. Read the history books - I mean really read them. Not just some pop history, but go back to the original source material, or works written by scholars who cite the source material so that someone else can check the facts. The first big transport build - in Britain - after the Romans left, was the spate of river improvements in the 15th and 16th centuries. There never was a commercial canal network in Britain (there might have been one in Row-land, but only one person has ever been there, so who really knows). There were a number of isolated canal developments. Subsequently, there were other isolated developments. Then a few more. In the end, some of them joined up. Many of the latter were late, or in the wrong place, or the developers thought that a canal was a good way to make money, so they built one anyway - and these were never commercial. So put down your pop history and read the real stuff. >History shows that you've got it wrong again, Rowland, it really does show - but that it is you who has it all wrong. <personal abuse snipped> And my Doctorate is real, and conferred by an English University. <more personal abuse snipped> >If the turnpike system had not been developed in the century before the >railways were developed, then the steam buses would not have been able >to gain any custom at all, would they? And how much custom did the steam buses gain? The appropriate word would have been "minimal" > >The whole *point* is that the toll roads came before the railways. > > - and yet you try to deny my whole argument on that basis! Crazy man! Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Never a valid basis for any discussion. <snip more personal abuse> > >Anyway, I tried to help you learn, but since you seem uninterested in >correcting your misunderstandings about history <helpless shrug> No, Rowland, what you did was to try to force your warped interpretation of some populist history book onto everybody else. > Quite astonishing pathology of mind, quite astonishing. When you know what the word "pathology" means, ome back and use it correctly, there's a good lad. Geoff
From: Rowland McDonnell on 29 Jun 2010 12:59 Dr Geoff Hone <gnhone(a)globalnet.co.uk> wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:55:19 +0100, > real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid (Rowland McDonnell) wrote: > > >Now then, let's deal with your mistaken idea that `toll roads long > >preceded the railway development' and examine some of the facts. > > > >Toll roads *AND* railways *AND* canals were all well established > >technology during the time of the ancient Romans - did you know that? > > > >The first big transport build after the Romans left was the toll road > >and commercial canal network construction boom in the 18th century, > >followed /immediately/ by the railway boom in the 19th century. > > > >It's in the history books - just pick one up, and you'll read it there, > >Geoff. Deny history all you like - you'll just be making a fool of > >yourself. [snip] > Read the history books - I mean really read them. You should do so, `Dr Geoff', you'd find it interesting. And you should read the landscape as I have done - travel the country, see the reality, don't just rely on what some dusty scholar has worked out from books. But you've done neither, you're just working from some half-remembered `facts' from school and the telly, aren't you? Not a single citation in sight, is there? I also suggest that if you want to have a discussion here, you stick to the technical issues rather than always putting in your little personal digs so as to wind me up. You're doing this out of a sadistic desire to make me unhappy, aren't you? It's all about winding me up because you're a nasty little boy who likes being nasty. > Not just some pop history, but go back to the original source > material, or works written by scholars who cite the source material so > that someone else can check the facts. Mmm - yes, you should take that advice. I see that you're providing no references at all - unlike me, you're just making all this up. You're fantasing, you are. > The first big transport build - in Britain - after the Romans left, > was the spate of river improvements in the 15th and 16th centuries. > There never was a commercial canal network in Britain [snip] So you allege, but you know what? You're ignoring the actual facts on the ground. Take your own advice, find out the actual facts. Walk the ground. Read the histories as I have done, cite them if you can (I see you've not bothered - because For example: you claim that there never was a canal network. But I have travelled on the UK's inland navigational network - built of rivers and canals and suchlike. Having travelled on it, I know there *IS* an inland naviational network in the UK. <shrug> Your failure to understand that basic point does rather imply that your ideas on this subject are seriously flawed. Go back to school and try to learn this time, why don't you? Rowland. -- Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell(a)dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking
From: Rowland McDonnell on 29 Jun 2010 13:10 Graeme <Graeme(a)greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In message > <1jku4q3.1x3v9rp1hpiobpN%real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> > real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid (Rowland McDonnell) > wrote: > > > Graeme <Graeme(a)greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > Tim Streater <timstreater(a)waitrose.com> wrote: > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > To which roads do you refer? Seems to me that in the early 1820s, > > > > 1830s, > > > > <sigh> Can't any of you people be bothered to find out some facts, eh? > > > [snip] > > > > The Manchester-Liverpool railway opened in 1830 - the first steam powered > > passenger railway in the world (unless you want to count fairground rides). > > > > Wrong, wrong and thrice wrong. <sigh> So why start out with that? If not to trying to undermine my point of view using unfair tactics? Anyway, you're wrong thrice over yourself, if not more times, because you've decided to do the usual `show that I'm wrong' rather than `try to understand what I meant'. If only you lot would try to understand what I meant... <sigh> But that's a bit much to hope for, isn't it? > The Stockton & Darlington preceded it by 5 > years. Yes, we all learnt that in school, didn't we? >Though primarily a freight line, it carried passengers from the > start. Missing the point: the L&M was built /as a passenger railway/; the S&D was built /as a freight railway/. *OF COURSE* they both CARRIED both passengers and freight. 1834, and Manchester even got a passenger station. > I'm not aware of any steam powered fairground rides at this early date, they > were a product of the late 19th Century. I meant stuff like this - not /exactly/ fairground ride stuff, but defintely early 19th century. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Trevithick#.22Catch_Me_Who_Can.22> Rowland. -- Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell(a)dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking
From: John DoH on 29 Jun 2010 16:50
In article <1jku2bd.m0xc8y7iwn7kN%real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid>, real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid (Rowland McDonnell) wrote: > The Older Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > > > > He, erm, pops up with some implied personal abuse > > > > Really? Where? > > Ye gods - does he ever let up? > > TOG, take your tablets, your OCD is well out of hand. > > Rowland. Is that projection, again? Perhaps becs away again, hands getting cramped eh Rowland? -- "Telling someone to kill themselves is not harmful: it's merely me expressing an opinion. You try to drive people to suicide - that's evil. My behaviour is perfectly okay; your behaviour is evil - plain and simple evil." Rowland McDonnell - 9th. Mar. 2009 |