How do you design these days?
in [Design]
|
From: markp on 31 Dec 2009 12:40 "Don Lancaster" <don(a)tinaja.com> wrote in message news:7q40n8FojqU1(a)mid.individual.net... > John Larkin wrote: >> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:01:44 -0000, "markp" <map.nospam(a)f2s.com> >> wrote: >> >>> "RogerN" <regor(a)midwest.net> wrote in message >>> news:ROudnXLvg9-Tm6HWnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >>>> When I was in school components fit on solderless breadboards and we >>>> made circuits using breadboards, power supplies, meters and >>>> oscilloscopes. Many of today's components don't appear to be breadboard >>>> friendly, so how is it done today? >>>> >>>> Is circuit design software and simulation good enough to go straight to >>>> a PC board? Or do you use surface mount to breadboard adapters? Do >>>> you still use a soldering Iron to solder or paste solder and an oven? >>>> >>>> I'm wanting to tinker with some circuits but some chips I'm interested >>>> in only comes in MSOP or other packages that look intimidating to >>>> attempt to solder. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> RogerN >>>> >>>> >>> I tend to design a PCB with CAD software then have prototype PCBs made. >>> There are several companies out there who do 'pooling', i.e. they >>> amalgamate many designs onto one PCB, that way you end up only paying a >>> small fraction of the tooling cost of the PCB. Some companies can handle >>> 6 layer boards with this process. Example in the UK is PCB Snap from >>> Spirit Circuits (www.spiritcircuits.com). >>> >>> This can be quite cost effectve for producing protptypes that are as >>> close to the final product as practicable. >> >> Why not go for the real thing, first time? If you get it right, you >> can sell it. >> >> John >> > > It is NEVER right the first time. > Analogous to the software world where every program has at least one bug and can be re-written in a better way with fewer lines. So therefore every software program can be reduced to one line of code that doesn't work! Mark.
From: Joel Koltner on 31 Dec 2009 12:41 "John Larkin" <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message news:7glpj5l1a7i5nm45bsp5gfhc016e3kjgo8(a)4ax.com... > On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:10:22 -0700, Don Lancaster <don(a)tinaja.com> >>It is NEVER right the first time. > We sell about 80% of our rev A boards, with no prototypes. Assuming > the first unit won't work is self-fulfilling, and a good way to make > sure the third iteration won't work either. I agree with your philosophy John... but you do allow yourself a non-zero number of blue wires or a couple of tack-soldered components or something on those saleable rev. A boards too though, right? > And my cabin automation hardware worked absolutely unaltered the first > time! That's great!
From: Joerg on 31 Dec 2009 13:25 Joel Koltner wrote: > "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message > news:7q2g2rF86cU1(a)mid.individual.net... >> In the professional world (product design) we go straight from >> simulation to schematic -> layout -> board fab -> assembly. No >> breadboards. > > Oh come on, even you occasionally dead bug-up (or otherwise prototype) a > tricky circuit that's part of a bigger product, right? > I do, but much less frequently than a decade ago. I recently thought about adding a hot air station but when thinking harder I realized that I would use it way too little to justify the desk space it'll take. > John Larkin does it plenty! :-) > But he has tons of lab space. Heck, they've even got a crane in the lab. For lifting heavy equipment and transformers around all I've got is Ibuprofen, in case back pain creeps up :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: krw on 31 Dec 2009 13:28 On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:10:22 -0700, Don Lancaster <don(a)tinaja.com> wrote: >John Larkin wrote: >> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:01:44 -0000, "markp" <map.nospam(a)f2s.com> >> wrote: >> >>> "RogerN" <regor(a)midwest.net> wrote in message >>> news:ROudnXLvg9-Tm6HWnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >>>> When I was in school components fit on solderless breadboards and we made >>>> circuits using breadboards, power supplies, meters and oscilloscopes. >>>> Many of today's components don't appear to be breadboard friendly, so how >>>> is it done today? >>>> >>>> Is circuit design software and simulation good enough to go straight to a >>>> PC board? Or do you use surface mount to breadboard adapters? Do you >>>> still use a soldering Iron to solder or paste solder and an oven? >>>> >>>> I'm wanting to tinker with some circuits but some chips I'm interested in >>>> only comes in MSOP or other packages that look intimidating to attempt to >>>> solder. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> RogerN >>>> >>>> >>> I tend to design a PCB with CAD software then have prototype PCBs made. >>> There are several companies out there who do 'pooling', i.e. they amalgamate >>> many designs onto one PCB, that way you end up only paying a small fraction >>> of the tooling cost of the PCB. Some companies can handle 6 layer boards >>> with this process. Example in the UK is PCB Snap from Spirit Circuits >>> (www.spiritcircuits.com). >>> >>> This can be quite cost effectve for producing protptypes that are as close >>> to the final product as practicable. >> >> Why not go for the real thing, first time? If you get it right, you >> can sell it. >> >> John >> > >It is NEVER right the first time. Some people evidently get close enough. If you don't try to get it right on the first time you never will, though. The problem is when management expects to get it right on the first try, then demands it on the second. About the fifth...
From: DJ Delorie on 31 Dec 2009 14:12
My way is to use a solderless breadboard, but build up sub-circuits on home-brew PCBs. So I've got a USB adapter, MCU adapter, ethernet socket with discretes adapter, power supply boards, etc. Homebrew can whip up a whole panel of breadboard adapters for SOT TSSOP CSP etc in little time and at little cost. The breadboard is for interconnecting the modules, adding pullup/pulldowns, etc. Once the circuits are explored this way, it goes to a PCB fab as a single final board (no production runs for me, just a hobby) and if it doesn't work I hack it until it does. Here's an example of that process (scroll down to the breadboard pics): http://www.delorie.com/electronics/alarmclock/ http://www.delorie.com/electronics/alarmclock/20070723-proto.jpg One project, nine adapter boards (ten when you include the second OLED connector), one breadboard. |