Jihad needs scientists
in [Design]
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From: Jonathan Kirwan on 17 Oct 2006 19:38 On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:33:52 +0100, "T Wake" <usenet.es7at(a)gishpuppy.com> wrote: >"John Larkin" <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message >news:2flaj2d1canrc6lfvnap5dhpdot9bsr2of(a)4ax.com... >> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:37:11 GMT, Jonathan Kirwan >> <jkirwan(a)easystreet.com> wrote: >> >>>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:05:07 -0700, John Larkin >>><jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:07:41 +0100, "T Wake" >>>><usenet.es7at(a)gishpuppy.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>"John Larkin" <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in >>>>>message >>>>>news:0h7aj25ckalb1dr630lm9apu323h2hj3ah(a)4ax.com... >>>>>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:45:03 GMT, Jonathan Kirwan >>>>>> <jkirwan(a)easystreet.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:50:18 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>><jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:38:17 GMT, <lucasea(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>"Jonathan Kirwan" <jkirwan(a)easystreet.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>news:i9n8j29atodlsous5hl3bpuk1avrj0s9a4(a)4ax.com... >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 03:39:16 GMT, <lucasea(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Nicely written. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Ever heard of a dinky, crappy little liberal arts college called >>>>>>>>>>>Kent >>>>>>>>>>>State? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how you intend that to be applied, of course, since >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> don't say what you are thinking here. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sorry if that sounded snotty--no hidden agenda, just the obvious >>>>>>>>>example >>>>>>>>>of >>>>>>>>>troops being ordered into a situation and attacking their own >>>>>>>>>people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Somehow it never occurred to me to throw rocks at armed National >>>>>>>>Guard >>>>>>>>troops. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>And by that comment do you mean to justify the application of deadly >>>>>>>force and the taking of lives in this particular circumstance? Just >>>>>>>curious. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course not. But if you do really, really stupid things, you can get >>>>>> hurt, no different from poking a pit bull with a stick. >>>>> >>>>>It is sad that your national guard are pit bulls. Are stones really that >>>>>frightening for them? >>>>> >>>>>It is sad that people are pushed to the point at which they feel they >>>>>need >>>>>to throw stones at Soldiers to get their voices heard. Isn't democracy >>>>>wonderful. >>>> >>>>How does hurling rocks get "their voices heard"? >>> >>>Wrong question, John. There were a lot of people there who did NOT >>>throw rocks. Only _some_ threw rocks. >>> >>>And a separate question, entirely, John. Do you imagine that only >>>those throwing the rocks are the ones who were injured or killed by >>>professional military action? >> >> The Guardsmen were mostly kids, about the same age as the college >> kids, but working-class, hardly "professional" military. They didn't >> like being there, but they were under orders, there to prevent >> violence. And the college kids assigned them the role of "authority" >> and stoned them. Of course the shooting was unjustified, but the >> college kids were incredibly clueless. > >You are quite correct in that blaming the soldiers directly for their >actions is wrong. The blame rests squarely with the person who wants to use >guns and soldiers against their own people. I was about to write something similar, but not nearly as well. Thanks! Jon
From: Eeyore on 17 Oct 2006 20:13 Daniel Mandic wrote: > Eeyore wrote: > > > Hindered ? > > > > Graham > > Handicapped. Mongolids for example. I wasn't sure if that was what you meant. Understood. Graham
From: Eeyore on 17 Oct 2006 20:15 John Larkin wrote: > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >John Larkin wrote: > >> On Tue, 17 Oct 06 11:50:44 GMT, jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > >> > >> >Pushing in certain areas is not the best way to prevent future > >> >messes. I've found that the only way for people to learn how > >> >not make new messes is to have them clean up the ones they > >> >already made. > >> > >> > >> Excellent. Care to assign cleanup duties in the Middle East and > >> Africa? > > > >Which bits of Africa did you have in mind ? > > Well, let's see. We could start with the Belgian Congo, and maybe > Rhodesia, perhaps Cote D'Ivorie and German East Africa. Funny names you're using there. I'd certainly like to see something done about Zimbabwe. Graham
From: Jonathan Kirwan on 17 Oct 2006 20:19 On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:10:40 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell(a)earthlink.net> wrote: ><snip> > I worked as a broadcast engineer at a Christian TV station in >1987/1988. We had a full 5 MW EIRP signal on a 1749 foot tower. Our >annual budget was 1.5 million dollars, vs 17 million dollars (and up) >for the local commercial stations. Even on that meager budget, 10% of >their income went to help others, via the "Prayer and Share" >department. The last that I've heard, they were trying to build a high >rise office building, keeping part of the space for their studios and >offices. The plans are to rent out the extra space to reduce the money >needed to run the station. They are in the Orlando area, and should have >no trouble leasing every square inch, when its done. ><snip> Excellent information. Thanks. I don't know if you read the link, I admit it is long and tedious, but down in the middle of it is some good collected info on the overarching figures going into capital assets v. operational expenses and 'good works'. None of that takes away from what you write above, nor does your story take away from it. Mike, I need to add something here. I have a profoundly autistic daughter and she still lives with me, at age 23. She also has grand mal seizures and these have broken out six teeth in one event and broken her forearm, right through both the radius and ulna in another event. All within the last four years, or so. We are very actively involved locally and have been most of this time. I am fortunate enough that my work allows me some range, here. I see, personally because I attend them, various religious events where we parents and their adult children or young children get together for extended times (from Friday afternoon until the following Sunday afternoon, a few times a year.) The last case, a Catholic retreat, really worked out for our daughter and us. It was a definite success. But there were many clinically depressed parents I talked with, too. All died-in-the-wool Catholics and active in their churches. Afterwards, over that Sunday night and the following day, I thought about those experiences and the need and the people I met and their children. And I cried. I called up the person at the diocese here that works so very hard and puts these on. She was a Catholic nun for a time and I deeply respect her, from years of talking with her. She didn't deserve it; she's done so much personally; but I laid into her, angrily. I used the Catholic scriptural descriptions, citing from the sermon on the mount like a priest might, with energy and verve, telling her that there is NO EXCUSE -- none at all -- for people like this. If anything, their faith (and I was raised Catholic, salt and pepper pants and white shirt to school, etc., but it is no longer mine) talks about those who are the least among them; to not to be like the hypocrites who make public their charities; that what they do for their own is no different than the gentiles, so it should be done for all and not just Catholics; etc., etc. She and I spoke for hours. I was so angry and where these parents and their children were, yet they were part of those who seem like just hypocrites in their faith to me. I will be continuing these discussions with others further up the chain of administration in the Catholic Church as well as other churches, too. This doesn't end, to be true. But when I see billions of dollars flowing into capital investments, so little for operation by comparison, and those at the very bottom, the least able to care for themselves, having so little and being literally unable to leave their own homes, it wears on me. Because I know the situation deeply. It is burnished into my soul with long, personal experience, too. These are my family I see out there, people I know bonded by common experience that few understand well, alone pretty much and without help from those who pretend their religion and little else besides. The sermon is clear. It's message is clear. Matthew puts it, "By their fruits ye shall know them." Yet where are these fruits, those one would expect from a healthy faith and an adherence to the sermon? Sorry to vent, Mike. But I see the churches going up all over the place here. I see the huge investments. I read the reports. I see how much goes into providing for the "least among you" and how much goes into resources for the able and capable. It's not just the churches. I don't mean to poke only at them. They are just showing the same symptoms as found in the rest of society. The difference is that Christians actually _have_ a core creed, in fact the very inner most and deepest part of it all out of which all the rest flows, that speaks to this issue. And instead I see families in need within the churches, let alone outside them, in terrible pain and difficulty. I suppose secular society can spout excuses. They don't have a core philosophy about the meek and poor and a failure here isn't necessarily hypocrisy. But what excuse, Christians??? I find none. I know that you also have your own experiences here and they speak to you as loudly as mine do for me. You and I see a side of this many don't. I volunteer, I work, I care, and I share what I have with others. And I'm an atheist, more or less. The hypocrisy just bugs me, at times. Jon
From: Eeyore on 17 Oct 2006 20:20
John Larkin wrote: > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >John Larkin wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:07:41 +0100, "T Wake" > >> > >> >It is sad that people are pushed to the point at which they feel they need > >> >to throw stones at Soldiers to get their voices heard. Isn't democracy > >> >wonderful. > >> > >> How does hurling rocks get "their voices heard"? > > > >Are you really being that obtuse ? > > > >Graham > > Apparently so. I can't see the connection between political discourse > and flinging stones at people. Can you explain it to me? For those who feel they don't have a voice it could be a method of getting publicity which in turn 'gets their voice heard'. Ever heard of demonstrations ? Graham |