Light isn't a particle
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From: mpc755 on 23 May 2010 11:33 On May 23, 10:58 am, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On May 23, 7:12 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 23, 9:43 am, "Sue..." <suzysewns...(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > > > On May 22, 10:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 22, 10:15 pm, "Sue..." <suzysewns...(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > On May 22, 9:55 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > That does't answer the question. > > > > > > > > "What established the light-particle's direction before > > > > > > > something altered it?" > > > > > > > > Why does light choose to illuminate your slit experiment > > > > > > > rather than a passenger aeroplane that needs the distance > > > > > > > to the nearest landing field? Are the emitters of light > > > > > > > equipped with gun barrels or cattle chutes to direct > > > > > > > the energy to the desired task? > > > > > > > > Sue... > > > > > > > The light emitter is described here: > > > > > > > 'Single Photon Interference'http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~scidemos/QuantumRelativity/SinglePhotonIn... > > > > > > That references a Helium Neon laser. > > > > > > The shape and directiviy is discussed here and > > > > > particle models don't seem to offer much. > > > > > >http://www.rp-photonics.com/gaussian_beams.html > > > > > > Sue... > > > > > 'Interpretation of quantum mechanics > > > > by the double solution theory > > > > Louis de BROGLIE'http://www.ensmp.fr/aflb/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf > > > > > "I called this relation, which determines the particle's motion in the > > > > wave, "the guidance formula". It may easily be generalized to the case > > > > of an external field acting on the particle." > > > > > The external field acting on the 'particle' is the associated wave. > > > > > "This result may be interpreted by noticing that, in the present > > > > theory, the particle is defined as a very small region of the wave > > > > where the amplitude is very large, and it therefore seems quite > > > > natural that the internal motion rythm of the particle should always > > > > be the same as that of the wave at the point where the particle is > > > > located." > > > > ================ > > > > > The internal motion rhythm of the particle is the same as that of the > > > > wave at the point where the particle is located. > > > > Do you have some evidence for the "internal motion rhythm" > > > of the light-particle? Does it have gears and wheels > > > shirring around? > > > >http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/articles/ekspong/http://en.... > > > > Sue... > > > 'LOUIS DE BROGLIE > > The wave nature of the electron > > Nobel Lecture, December 12, 1929'http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates//1929/broglie-le... > > > 'We shall content ourselves here by considering the general > > significance of the results obtained. To sum up the meaning of wave > > mechanics it can be stated that: "A wave must be associated with each > > corpuscle and only the study of the waves propagation will yield > > information to us on the successive positions of the corpuscle in > > space". In conventional large-scale mechanical phenomena the > > anticipated positions lie along a curve which is the trajectory in the > > conventional meaning of the word. But what happens if the wave does > > not propagate according to the laws of optical geometry, if, say, > > there are interferences and diffraction? Then it is no longer possible > > to assign to the corpuscle a motion complying with classical dynamics, > > that much is certain. Is it even still possible to assume that at each > > moment the corpuscle occupies a well-defined position in the wave and > > that the wave in its propagation carries the corpuscle along in the > > same way as a wave would carry along a cork? These are difficult > > questions and to discuss them would take us too far and even to the > > confines of philosophy. All that I shall say about them here is that > > nowadays the tendency in general is to assume that it is not > > constantly possible to assign to the corpuscle a well-defined position > > in the wave. I must restrict myself to the assertion that when an > > observation is carried out enabling the localization of the corpuscle, > > the observer is invariably induced to assign to the corpuscle a > > position in the interior of the wave and the probability of it being > > at a particular point M of the wave is proportional to the square of > > the amplitude, that is to say the intensity at M.'- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Matter has waves except for the neutrino but light waves are not > particles. > > Mitch Raemsch "Light ... is ... small particle" is the photon 'particle'. "Light collapsing into ... particle" is the photon 'particle'. "Oscillating into ... particle" is the photon 'particle'. If detectors are placed at the exits to the slits in a double slit experiment the 'particle' is always detected exiting a single slit. The ability of light to collapse into a particle travels a single path. The light wave enters and exits both slits in a double slit experiment. The ability of the light to collapse into a particle enters and exits a single slit. The light wave exits both slits and creates interference which alters the direction the 'particle' travels. Detecting the 'particle' causes decoherence of the associated wave and there is no interference.
From: mpc755 on 23 May 2010 11:35 On May 23, 11:16 am, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On May 22, 1:06 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 22, 3:47 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > No. Light is dual electric field wave and magnetic. > > > Which wave is the particle in? > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > What part of "The magnetic and electric FIELDS of AN electromagnetic > > wave...of THE wave" are you incapable of understanding? > > >http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/waves2.html > > > "Electromagnetic waves are formed when an electric field (shown as > > blue > > arrows) couples with a magnetic field (shown as red arrows). The > > magnetic and electric fields of an electromagnetic wave are > > perpendicular to each other and to the direction of the wave." > > > ...of AN electromagnetic wave...and to the direction of THE wave. > > > The 'particle' occupies a very small region of AN electromagnetic > > wave. > > > The 'particle' occupies a very small region of THE wave. > > > In a double slit experiment with photons, why is the interference > > pattern built up over time based upon individual registrations? > > > In a double slit experiment with photons, if there is no 'particle' > > associated with the photon wave, then why isn't the interference > > pattern > > created similar to an ocean wave hitting the shore? > > >http://www.fas.harvard.edu/ > > ~scidemos/QuantumRelativity/SinglePhotonInterference/ > > SinglePhotonInterfe > > rence.html > > > "Rather than the usual screen, the arrival of individual photons is > > registered and stored electronically. This alone is evidence for the > > graininess or particle nature of light." > > > The photon 'particle' occupies a very small region of the wave. > > Which wave is the particle in? Is it in the electric or is it in the > magnetic wave? > > Mitch Raemsch What part of "The magnetic and electric FIELDS of AN electromagnetic wave...of THE wave" are you incapable of understanding? http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/waves2.html "Electromagnetic waves are formed when an electric field (shown as blue arrows) couples with a magnetic field (shown as red arrows). The magnetic and electric fields of an electromagnetic wave are perpendicular to each other and to the direction of the wave." ....of AN electromagnetic wave...and to the direction of THE wave. The 'particle' occupies a very small region of AN electromagnetic wave. The 'particle' occupies a very small region of THE wave. In a double slit experiment with photons, why is the interference pattern built up over time based upon individual registrations? In a double slit experiment with photons, if there is no 'particle' associated with the photon wave, then why isn't the interference pattern created similar to an ocean wave hitting the shore? http://www.fas.harvard.edu/ ~scidemos/QuantumRelativity/SinglePhotonInterference/ SinglePhotonInterfe rence.html "Rather than the usual screen, the arrival of individual photons is registered and stored electronically. This alone is evidence for the graininess or particle nature of light." The photon 'particle' occupies a very small region of THE wave.
From: BURT on 23 May 2010 11:35 On May 23, 8:33 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 23, 10:58 am, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On May 23, 7:12 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On May 23, 9:43 am, "Sue..." <suzysewns...(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > > > > On May 22, 10:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On May 22, 10:15 pm, "Sue..." <suzysewns...(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > > On May 22, 9:55 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > That does't answer the question. > > > > > > > > > "What established the light-particle's direction before > > > > > > > > something altered it?" > > > > > > > > > Why does light choose to illuminate your slit experiment > > > > > > > > rather than a passenger aeroplane that needs the distance > > > > > > > > to the nearest landing field? Are the emitters of light > > > > > > > > equipped with gun barrels or cattle chutes to direct > > > > > > > > the energy to the desired task? > > > > > > > > > Sue... > > > > > > > > The light emitter is described here: > > > > > > > > 'Single Photon Interference'http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~scidemos/QuantumRelativity/SinglePhotonIn... > > > > > > > That references a Helium Neon laser. > > > > > > > The shape and directiviy is discussed here and > > > > > > particle models don't seem to offer much. > > > > > > >http://www.rp-photonics.com/gaussian_beams.html > > > > > > > Sue... > > > > > > 'Interpretation of quantum mechanics > > > > > by the double solution theory > > > > > Louis de BROGLIE'http://www.ensmp.fr/aflb/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf > > > > > > "I called this relation, which determines the particle's motion in the > > > > > wave, "the guidance formula". It may easily be generalized to the case > > > > > of an external field acting on the particle." > > > > > > The external field acting on the 'particle' is the associated wave. > > > > > > "This result may be interpreted by noticing that, in the present > > > > > theory, the particle is defined as a very small region of the wave > > > > > where the amplitude is very large, and it therefore seems quite > > > > > natural that the internal motion rythm of the particle should always > > > > > be the same as that of the wave at the point where the particle is > > > > > located." > > > > > ================ > > > > > > The internal motion rhythm of the particle is the same as that of the > > > > > wave at the point where the particle is located. > > > > > Do you have some evidence for the "internal motion rhythm" > > > > of the light-particle? Does it have gears and wheels > > > > shirring around? > > > > >http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/articles/ekspong/http://en... > > > > > Sue... > > > > 'LOUIS DE BROGLIE > > > The wave nature of the electron > > > Nobel Lecture, December 12, 1929'http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates//1929/broglie-le... > > > > 'We shall content ourselves here by considering the general > > > significance of the results obtained. To sum up the meaning of wave > > > mechanics it can be stated that: "A wave must be associated with each > > > corpuscle and only the study of the waves propagation will yield > > > information to us on the successive positions of the corpuscle in > > > space". In conventional large-scale mechanical phenomena the > > > anticipated positions lie along a curve which is the trajectory in the > > > conventional meaning of the word. But what happens if the wave does > > > not propagate according to the laws of optical geometry, if, say, > > > there are interferences and diffraction? Then it is no longer possible > > > to assign to the corpuscle a motion complying with classical dynamics, > > > that much is certain. Is it even still possible to assume that at each > > > moment the corpuscle occupies a well-defined position in the wave and > > > that the wave in its propagation carries the corpuscle along in the > > > same way as a wave would carry along a cork? These are difficult > > > questions and to discuss them would take us too far and even to the > > > confines of philosophy. All that I shall say about them here is that > > > nowadays the tendency in general is to assume that it is not > > > constantly possible to assign to the corpuscle a well-defined position > > > in the wave. I must restrict myself to the assertion that when an > > > observation is carried out enabling the localization of the corpuscle, > > > the observer is invariably induced to assign to the corpuscle a > > > position in the interior of the wave and the probability of it being > > > at a particular point M of the wave is proportional to the square of > > > the amplitude, that is to say the intensity at M.'- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Matter has waves except for the neutrino but light waves are not > > particles. > > > Mitch Raemsch > > "Light ... is ... small particle" is the photon 'particle'. > > "Light collapsing into ... particle" is the photon 'particle'. > > "Oscillating into ... particle" is the photon 'particle'. > > If detectors are placed at the exits to the slits in a double slit > experiment the 'particle' is always detected exiting a single slit. > The ability of light to collapse into a particle travels a single > path. The light wave enters and exits both slits in a double slit > experiment. The ability of the light to collapse into a particle > enters and exits a single slit. The light wave exits both slits and > creates interference which alters the direction the 'particle' > travels. Detecting the 'particle' causes decoherence of the associated > wave and there is no interference.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Light isn't a particle. It is just a dual wave. Mitch Raemsch
From: mpc755 on 23 May 2010 11:40 On May 23, 11:24 am, "Sue..." <suzysewns...(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: > On May 23, 10:12 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On May 23, 9:43 am, "Sue..." <suzysewns...(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > > > On May 22, 10:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 22, 10:15 pm, "Sue..." <suzysewns...(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > On May 22, 9:55 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > That does't answer the question. > > > > > > > > "What established the light-particle's direction before > > > > > > > something altered it?" > > > > > > > > Why does light choose to illuminate your slit experiment > > > > > > > rather than a passenger aeroplane that needs the distance > > > > > > > to the nearest landing field? Are the emitters of light > > > > > > > equipped with gun barrels or cattle chutes to direct > > > > > > > the energy to the desired task? > > > > > > > > Sue... > > > > > > > The light emitter is described here: > > > > > > > 'Single Photon Interference'http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~scidemos/QuantumRelativity/SinglePhotonIn... > > > > > > That references a Helium Neon laser. > > > > > > The shape and directiviy is discussed here and > > > > > particle models don't seem to offer much. > > > > > >http://www.rp-photonics.com/gaussian_beams.html > > > > > > Sue... > > > > > 'Interpretation of quantum mechanics > > > > by the double solution theory > > > > Louis de BROGLIE'http://www.ensmp.fr/aflb/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf > > > > > "I called this relation, which determines the particle's motion in the > > > > wave, "the guidance formula". It may easily be generalized to the case > > > > of an external field acting on the particle." > > > > > The external field acting on the 'particle' is the associated wave. > > > > > "This result may be interpreted by noticing that, in the present > > > > theory, the particle is defined as a very small region of the wave > > > > where the amplitude is very large, and it therefore seems quite > > > > natural that the internal motion rythm of the particle should always > > > > be the same as that of the wave at the point where the particle is > > > > located." > > ================ > > > > > The internal motion rhythm of the particle is the same as that of the > > > > wave at the point where the particle is located. > > > > Do you have some evidence for the "internal motion rhythm" > > > of the light-particle? Does it have gears and wheels > > > shirring around? > > http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/articles/ekspong/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoelectric_effect#Modern_view > > > > > > Sue... > > > 'LOUIS DE BROGLIE > > The wave nature of the electron > > OK... You don't, so cut the nonsense. > Evidence that birds can fly is not evidence > that pigs can fly. > > Sue... I am agreeing with de Broglie that it is not known exactly how the particle and wave interact as one. That is not to say there is not a physical particle and a physical wave. My preferred concept of a photon is the following: http://superstruny.aspweb.cz/images/fyzika/foton.gif The center of the image is the 'particle'. The center of the image where the amplitude is greatest has a probability of being located anywhere within the wave but the probability of its location is greatest at the center of the wave. 'LOUIS DE BROGLIE The wave nature of the electron Nobel Lecture, December 12, 1929' http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates//1929/broglie-lecture.pdf 'We shall content ourselves here by considering the general significance of the results obtained. To sum up the meaning of wave mechanics it can be stated that: "A wave must be associated with each corpuscle and only the study of the waves propagation will yield information to us on the successive positions of the corpuscle in space". In conventional large-scale mechanical phenomena the anticipated positions lie along a curve which is the trajectory in the conventional meaning of the word. But what happens if the wave does not propagate according to the laws of optical geometry, if, say, there are interferences and diffraction? Then it is no longer possible to assign to the corpuscle a motion complying with classical dynamics, that much is certain. Is it even still possible to assume that at each moment the corpuscle occupies a well-defined position in the wave and that the wave in its propagation carries the corpuscle along in the same way as a wave would carry along a cork? These are difficult questions and to discuss them would take us too far and even to the confines of philosophy. All that I shall say about them here is that nowadays the tendency in general is to assume that it is not constantly possible to assign to the corpuscle a well-defined position in the wave. I must restrict myself to the assertion that when an observation is carried out enabling the localization of the corpuscle, the observer is invariably induced to assign to the corpuscle a position in the interior of the wave and the probability of it being at a particular point M of the wave is proportional to the square of the amplitude, that is to say the intensity at M.'
From: BURT on 23 May 2010 11:43
On May 23, 8:35 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 23, 11:16 am, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On May 22, 1:06 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On May 22, 3:47 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > No. Light is dual electric field wave and magnetic. > > > > Which wave is the particle in? > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > What part of "The magnetic and electric FIELDS of AN electromagnetic > > > wave...of THE wave" are you incapable of understanding? > > > >http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/waves2.html > > > > "Electromagnetic waves are formed when an electric field (shown as > > > blue > > > arrows) couples with a magnetic field (shown as red arrows). The > > > magnetic and electric fields of an electromagnetic wave are > > > perpendicular to each other and to the direction of the wave." > > > > ...of AN electromagnetic wave...and to the direction of THE wave. > > > > The 'particle' occupies a very small region of AN electromagnetic > > > wave. > > > > The 'particle' occupies a very small region of THE wave. > > > > In a double slit experiment with photons, why is the interference > > > pattern built up over time based upon individual registrations? > > > > In a double slit experiment with photons, if there is no 'particle' > > > associated with the photon wave, then why isn't the interference > > > pattern > > > created similar to an ocean wave hitting the shore? > > > >http://www.fas.harvard.edu/ > > > ~scidemos/QuantumRelativity/SinglePhotonInterference/ > > > SinglePhotonInterfe > > > rence.html > > > > "Rather than the usual screen, the arrival of individual photons is > > > registered and stored electronically. This alone is evidence for the > > > graininess or particle nature of light." > > > > The photon 'particle' occupies a very small region of the wave. > > > Which wave is the particle in? Is it in the electric or is it in the > > magnetic wave? > > > Mitch Raemsch > > What part of "The magnetic and electric FIELDS of AN electromagnetic > wave...of THE wave" are you incapable of understanding? > > http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/waves2.html > > "Electromagnetic waves are formed when an electric field (shown as > blue arrows) couples with a magnetic field (shown as red arrows). The > magnetic and electric fields of an electromagnetic wave are > perpendicular to each other and to the direction of the wave." > > ...of AN electromagnetic wave...and to the direction of THE wave. > > The 'particle' occupies a very small region of AN electromagnetic > wave. > > The 'particle' occupies a very small region of THE wave. > > In a double slit experiment with photons, why is the interference > pattern built up over time based upon individual registrations? > > In a double slit experiment with photons, if there is no 'particle' > associated with the photon wave, then why isn't the interference > pattern created similar to an ocean wave hitting the shore? > > http://www.fas.harvard.edu/ > ~scidemos/QuantumRelativity/SinglePhotonInterference/ > SinglePhotonInterfe > rence.html > > "Rather than the usual screen, the arrival of individual photons is > registered and stored electronically. This alone is evidence for the > graininess or particle nature of light." > > The photon 'particle' occupies a very small region of THE wave.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Stop repeating. Light is an oscillating wave. There is no particle. My question proves it. Mitch Raemsch |