Mail problem resumes
in [Mac Systems]
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From: Salmon Egg on 25 Dec 2009 14:50 In article <michelle-12E652.08233325122009(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Michelle Steiner <michelle(a)michelle.org> wrote: > In article <SalmonEgg-409FBA.20034724122009(a)news60.forteinc.com>, > Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > I am concluding that the problem is with Snow Leopard. There are other > > little things that make me think that Snow Leopard or the computer > > itself is buggy. > > Considering that many of us are running Snow Leopard and are not > experiencing this problem, I think that your conclusion is wrong. > > Have you tried setting up another user account, and seeing whether the > problem exists with that account? Do you mean another email address or another ISP account? I have several accounts with my ISP. Only some of them give me the spinning spoke problem. The trouble is that they are not always the same account. Bill -- An old man would be better off never having been born.
From: Jochem Huhmann on 25 Dec 2009 15:00 Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg(a)sbcglobal.net> writes: > While I do not deny the possibility of my boneheadedness, I would like > to know what is boneheaded about that. Without such knowledge, how can I > convert from a bonehead to a meathead? Well, you could start with listing some facts about that account and the mail that is in it. How many emails are we speaking about? Does the same thing happen if you're not connected to the network at all (which would tell you something about the source of the problem -- the server or your email already on the machine)? What happens if you create a fresh user account and configure the same account there? Does it work now? Again, this would tell you if the problem is with Mail.app communicating with the server or rather with the mail you already have. And then it would be clever to read and try what people suggest. One thing would be to quit Mail, move away "Library/Mail/Envelope Index" and start Mail again, forcing it to recreate its header database. I'm suggesting this the third time now and I'm quite curious if you'll invest the 10 seconds needed to try that. Jochem -- "A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
From: Tom Stiller on 25 Dec 2009 15:34 In article <SalmonEgg-77363F.11502225122009(a)news60.forteinc.com>, Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > In article <michelle-12E652.08233325122009(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > Michelle Steiner <michelle(a)michelle.org> wrote: > > > In article <SalmonEgg-409FBA.20034724122009(a)news60.forteinc.com>, > > Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > > > I am concluding that the problem is with Snow Leopard. There are other > > > little things that make me think that Snow Leopard or the computer > > > itself is buggy. > > > > Considering that many of us are running Snow Leopard and are not > > experiencing this problem, I think that your conclusion is wrong. > > > > Have you tried setting up another user account, and seeing whether the > > problem exists with that account? > > Do you mean another email address or another ISP account? > > I have several accounts with my ISP. Only some of them give me the > spinning spoke problem. The trouble is that they are not always the same > account. > > Bill Another Mac account, using the same ISP and Mail account(s). -- Tom Stiller PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF
From: Salmon Egg on 25 Dec 2009 17:09 In article <m2eimiesdo.fsf(a)revier.com>, Jochem Huhmann <joh(a)gmx.net> wrote: > Well, you could start with listing some facts about that account and the > mail that is in it. How many emails are we speaking about? Does the same > thing happen if you're not connected to the network at all (which would > tell you something about the source of the problem -- the server or your > email already on the machine)? What happens if you create a fresh user > account and configure the same account there? Does it work now? Again, > this would tell you if the problem is with Mail.app communicating with > the server or rather with the mail you already have. > > And then it would be clever to read and try what people suggest. One > thing would be to quit Mail, move away "Library/Mail/Envelope Index" and > start Mail again, forcing it to recreate its header database. I'm > suggesting this the third time now and I'm quite curious if you'll > invest the 10 seconds needed to try that. Sometimes it is difficult to communicate technical details like this. What may be obvious to me is not obvious to you and vice versa. I will try to read your post again for suggestions. What is clear to me is: 1. Mail using OS 10.5.8 works well on my computer. 2. Migrating the account data from this drive to fresh versions of 10.6.2 systems on two separate drives in the same computer result in similarly flawed Mail performance. How can you escape the conclusion that either OS 10.6.2 Mail or 10.6.2 migration software is flawed? Bill -- An old man would be better off never having been born.
From: J.J. O'Shea on 25 Dec 2009 17:32
On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:26:10 -0500, Salmon Egg wrote (in article <SalmonEgg-F26A10.11261025122009(a)news60.forteinc.com>): > In article <hh2k5602ig4(a)news6.newsguy.com>, > J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to(a)but.see.sig> wrote: > >>> I am using a POP account that has worked well for years using Leopard. >> > [Item 1] >> It's not the _account_, man, it's the bloody mail database on your bloody >> machine. The account's fine. Your database is screwed, and you're making it >> worse. >> >>> >>> Because of this problem I tried a few other things. >>> >>> I booted up under Leopard System 10.5.8. This was on the drive from >>> which I transfered information to Snow Leopard System 10.6.2 that was on >>> the main drive that came with the computer. I could not get Leopard's >>> Mail to behave as badly as Snow Leopard's. >> >> because it's using _a different mail database_. Mail is stored in the >> <user>/Library/Mail directory on your system, so when you boot from a >> different volume you're accessing a different mail database. _That_ >> database >> is not screwed. Yet. If you do to it what you've done to the SL database, >> it >> _will_ get screwed, in exactly the same way as the other database. >> >>> >>> In addition, I put another Snow Leopard system on a third drive. Again, >>> using the provided Apple migration software to transfer old Leopard >>> information. When I booted on this third drive, I got the same kind of >>> Mail behavior as with the first Snow Leopard system. >> >> Where did you transfer the mail database from? The Leo volume or the SL >> volume? If the SL volume, _you transfered the screwed database_. If the leo >> volume, you did something funny. Given your attempts (shown below) to do >> truly silly stuff, I suspect that you did something funny. >> >>> >>> I am concluding that the problem is with Snow Leopard. There are other >>> little things that make me think that Snow Leopard or the computer >>> itself is buggy. >> >> Personally, I suspect that PEBCK. >> >>> >>> I think I mentioned that I tried to boot my new Mac Pro from earlier >>> Leopard install disks. >> > [Item 2] >> God-damn, but you're silly. A _new_ Mac Pro will boot only using SL. Old >> ones, released before SL arrived, will boot using Leo _and_ SL. This is the >> way that Apple has done things since forever. Older hardware can boot off >> older versions of the OS. Newer hardware requires the newer version. Apple >> has been known to bring out new versions of the OS just to accomodate newer >> hardware. >> >>> I also tried to boot from Leopard install disks >>> that I got before I had my first Mac Pro. I could not boot from those >>> disks. I had no trouble booting from the Snow Leopard instal disks. >> >> Gee. What a surprise. The hardware behaves as it's supposed to... >> >> One wonders what other inanities you perpetuated that you're not telling >> us, >> and which of them was the inanity which screwed up your mail database for >> good and all. > > [Item 3] >> Have you by any chance even _tried_ to repair the database? Didn't think so. > > While I found J.J. O'Shea's post interesting, I will admit to not fully > understanding it. Rather than gerrymandering it even more, I will > annotate with Item numbers. > > Item 1. > Whatever data base is used is derived from the Mail in Leopard on the > boot drive from my old computer now in my new computer. When booting > from this drive, the system is Leopard!. Mail seems to work well then. You are using the mail database on the Leo volume. That database is _not_ screwed. Therefore you will _not_ have a problem. > I > suppose there is a database there that works. Look in <user>/Library/Mail and you will see the mail database. For example, my Mail folder contains a folder for each account I have (IMAP, POP, Mobile Me) and also a main Mobile Me folder which is named for my Mobile Me account and which contains folders for all the mailboxes in that account. <user>/Library/Mail/Mac-<user>/Apple.imapmbox is the folder which contains all the mail I have from an Apple address. Inside that folder are three items: an info.plist with info about my Apple folder, an Attachments folder containing multiple folders containing attachments sent to me from Apple, and a Messages folder containing the actual posts. This general characteristic is repeated for all my other mailboxes. This is the Mail database. When I boot from my default system, I use _that_ database. If I were to boot from my backup volume instead, I would use the database on the backup volume. Your database is corrupt. You can fix it, by using the Rebuild option present in Mail, or you can eliminate the problem by deleting your mail. Fixing it using Rebuild usually takes just a few minutes. It is unclear to me why you _still_ have not attempted to repair the Mail database. > This drive supplied > information for any other Mail data bases using Snow Leopard. This data > got transferred by Apple software invoked upon initial booting from a > newly installed Snow Leopard system. It is possible that the Migration > software cannot handle the job. Unlikely. I have mailboxes on my system which contain mail which was migrated into the Mail system back when I moved from Eudora to Mail. That means that I have at total of over 2.5 GB of mail in that database, dating back to 2002; this doesn't count stuff that I've archived away from the main database over the years. I _really_ doubt that you have anywhere near as much mail as I do. I was able to move from Leo to SL, and earlier from Tiger to Leo, and earlier still from Panther to Tiger and Jaguar to Panther, without problems. The mail database is extremely unlikely to become corrupt just by being updated. Any problems which result from migration or from other normal use can usually be fixed by running Rebuild from the Mailbox menu. I repeat: have you attempted to use the Rebuild feature? If not, why not? > That was done when I first turned on my > new computer. I then installed a new Snow Leopard system on another > drive. I transferred data to this drive with Apple migration software. > If what you say is true, this migration software cannot take a working > Leopard data base and convert it into a working Snow Leopard data base. Incorrect, given that the standard system has to my certain knowledge migrated several score machines from Leo to SL. I know this because I've done the migration myself or have observed Mail to be working on machines which have been migrated. > > What is PEBCK? Problem Exists Between Chair and Keyboard. > > Item 2/ > Do different production runs of Mac Pro require different software? You're being silly again. Different models require different systems. A Mac Pro (August 2006) shipped with OS X 10.4.7 and cannot use previous versions of the system, that being the first version that worked with Intel CPUs. A Mac Pro (August 2006) shipped with OS X 10.4.9 and cannot use previous versions of the OS, even 10.4.7 or 10.4.8. The Mac Pro (April 2007) can use 10.4.8 and 10.4.9, though. A Mac Pro (January 2008) shipped with OS X 10.5.1 and can't use any version of 10.4.x. A Mac Pro (March 2009) shipped with 10.5.6 and can't use any previous version. _If you take 10.5.1 discs and try to boot a March 2009 machine up with them, they will not work_. Take the same discs and try to boot a January 2008 or a April 2007 or an August 2006 machine and they _will_ work. You have a late-model Mac Pro. You _must_ use 10.5.6 or later. If you try to use earlier versions of the OS, your Mac Pro will not boot. Period. > If I > can run Leopard from a hard drive in a particular machine, why cannot I > not install Leopard on that machine? Which _version_? There's a difference between 10.5.1 and 10.5.6! > I bought a copy of Leopard some > years ago to upgrade my G4. Did Apple do something to prevent installing > Leopard on the newest machines. I know by now not to expect much sense, > but does that make sense? Which _version_ did you buy? And if it was a retail version, it should have been Universal, so if it was the correct version number it should boot. If it's not the correct version number it will not boot and _nothing_ you do will force it to boot. If you bought Leo 'some years ago' I suspect that you bought 10.5.2... and that ain't gonna boot newer hardware. > > Item 3. > I did try the Rebuild command from the Mailbox menu. There was some > computer activity, but whatever it was did not help. What did the Activity window say was happening? Have you looked at the Console logs? > > Bill > > -- email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. |