Mass-Energy Equivalence [Math]

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From: Paul Stowe on 25 Apr 2010 14:25

On Apr 24, 11:21 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 24, 1:05 pm, PaulStowe<theaether...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If observing a force response (inertia) is an indirect inference
> > rather than relying on a calculation well,
>
> An energy response and momentum response are measurable. For example,
> the latter is directly related to the curvature of a trajectory in a
> magnetic field. This is certainly no less complicated that deriving an
> acceleration from a trajectory, and then using the acceleration to
> derive a mass.

You misunderstood my answer (it wasn't clear). I meant like using an
old fashion balance scale... 'Assuming' that force is always equal
to
mass times acceleration and 'calculating it IS NEVER! a direct
observation. It is AN ASSUMPTION, not a direct measurement. As
Majorana's test showed, this may in fact NOT be true in all cases.
How does one 'know' FOR SURE the mass of any astronomical body?
Answer, THEY DON'T! The 'assume' that the equations we've developed
are correct 'in all cases' even when they have never been 'directly'
tested in the domains utilized. Thus my question that nobody has
ever
been able to answer, how do you know the difference between,

F = kA^2/r^2

and

F = GM^2/r^2

from long distance observation alone? I say, you can't! If you
can't
the is no uniqueness and the answer is uncertain.

> > we certainly have very
> > different definitions of indirect... As for your argument, by your
> > definition, photons have mass...
>
> The definition I was using earlier was m^2 = E^2 - p^2 (in natural
> units). In this definition, the photons have zero mass.

Now this is rather the point, don't'cha think, you've defined it the
way you want... IF E = kmv^2 it is alway true, or it is simply not a
fundamental expression. It cannot be both.

> > > > > > I have come to the realization that mass is an electromagnetic
> > > > > > phenomena. That is to say, the fields that constitutes 'matter' will
> > > > > > create counter EMF effects when perturbed from equilibrium.
>
> > > > > I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand this claim. So if something
> > > > > is proceeding at constant momentum in the absence of an
> > > > > electromagnetic field present, and there is a change in a
> > > > > gravitational field that affects this thing, the inertia that governs
> > > > > the acceleration response to this gravitational field is somehow
> > > > > electromagnetic in origin?
>
> > > > As you 'should' know all so-called material systems actually consist
> > > > of charged entities, Quarks.
>
> > > Electrons are not quarks and they are a key constituent in matter.
> > > They are electrically charged, though.
> > > But to your point, quarks are distinct from electrons not just by the
> > > value of their charge, but by the fact that they have a charge that
> > > electrons do not exhibit at all: strong charge, or "color". And in
> > > fact, one is hard pressed to understand how it is that nucleons
> > > inhabit a nucleus that is 10^-15 times smaller in volume than the
> > > atom, if one only considers the interaction of the electric charge.
> > > The behavior of the interaction due to strong charge is much, much
> > > different than the interaction due to the electric charge, something
> > > we know from extensive studies.
>
> > Yes, and because of this fact the apparent inertia of hadrons is
> > different than leptons. I am currently investigating this aspect and
> > 'think' it has to do with the QM base harmonic of the entity. I've
> > made some progress but am not there yet.
>
> Let us know when you get there. You're competing against QCD, which
> has a number of successes already.

I don't see it as a competition, nor conflict, but we'll see where it
leads, if anywhere.

> > As for gravity being an
> > offshoot of EM, that would yield unification, now wouldn't it? As it
> > looks to me now, gravity is a second order effect of changes in
> > velocity, as such, the sign force (+/-) disappears, leaving only one
> > opposing vector. It looks now that it is directly related to Grad E,
> > where E is the electric potential.
>
> Then you should be able to derive the electric field of the solar
> system, since the gravitational effects are so well mapped. This seems
> like a straightforward exercise.

Ah, if it were only that simple. It's NOT the resultant E, it's each
individual charge's E field that responds. These are only of the
10^-21 Nt/dv per charge but given the number of said charges per cc
of
matter it adds up to a significant response (inertia).

> > > > Last I check charges manifest electric
> > > > 'fields' that are believed to be infinite in extent. In an
> > > > equilibrium state (what you called constant momentum) these fields
> > > > configuration are consistent. Perturb the equilibrium, and the fields
> > > > are 'forced' to change, when electric fields are accelerated they
> > > > create a reactive counter EMF. Hal Puthoff and others have realized
> > > > this also.
>
> > > > > > That EMF is the source of inertia, thus, by definition, 'mass'.
> > > > > > Regards,

Paul Stowe

From: mpc755 on 25 Apr 2010 17:10

On Apr 24, 8:40 pm, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> On Apr 23, 10:22 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In E=mc^2, mass is conserved.
>
> Yes, the mass(amount of matter) IS conserved; even if some of it may
> have no weight (in grams) after it is released.
>
> glird

What do you weigh the aether with?

What do you use to weigh the lowest common denominator of matter?

You can't weigh the aether.

I wouldn't use the term 'no weight'. Saying the matter has no weight,
but still has mass, after it is 'released' is confusing. It is better
conceptually to describe aether and matter as different states of the
same material.

The material has mass.

Aether and matter have mass.

'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A.
EINSTEIN'
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf

"If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass
diminishes by L/c2."

The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer
exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as
aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three
dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether
and matter is energy.

In E=mc^2, mass is conserved.

From: BURT on 25 Apr 2010 17:14

On Apr 25, 2:10 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 24, 8:40 pm, glird <gl...(a)aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 23, 10:22 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > In E=mc^2, mass is conserved.
>
> > Yes, the mass(amount of matter) IS conserved; even if some of it may
> > have no weight (in grams) after it is released.
>
> > glird
>
> What do you weigh the aether with?
>
> What do you use to weigh the lowest common denominator of matter?
>
> You can't weigh the aether.
>
> I wouldn't use the term 'no weight'. Saying the matter has no weight,
> but still has mass, after it is 'released' is confusing. It is better
> conceptually to describe aether and matter as different states of the
> same material.
>
> The material has mass.
>
> Aether and matter have mass.
>
> 'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A.
> EINSTEIN'http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf
>
> "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass
> diminishes by L/c2."
>
> The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer
> exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as
> aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three
> dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether
> and matter is energy.
>
> In E=mc^2, mass is conserved.

Weight is one aether being creating by another.

Mitch Raemsch

From: spudnik on 25 Apr 2010 17:17

there is always some missing mass in any fission or
fusion event, taht's the energy; of course,
only matter-antimatter reactions approach a complete conversion;
true?

> Yes, the mass(amount of matter) IS conserved; even if some of it may
> have no weight (in grams) after it is released.

thus:
all "photons" are readily absorbed by the correct tuner,
generally a change of orbital of an electron, I suppose;
all "photons" "go" at the speed of propogation of lightwaves,
depending upon the index of refraction of the medium
(given that there is really no vacuum "a la Pascal").

> Can we see or detect any -99.9999%c photons?

thus:
but, dood, what in Hell do *you* mean,
by "aether & matter are different states
of the same material" -- why do atoms and
electrons & antiatoms need "an other state"
of themselves?

thus:
Skeptics were just another Greek cult under the Roman Empire;
Peripatetics, Gnostics, Stoics, Epicureans etc.
ad vomitorium. I recall also recently reading that Justice
Kennedy had come out for WS in some moot court, but
that he later came to Oxford ... most likely, because
it serves his oligarchical worldview (or, it was Scalia).

I know of at least three "proofs" that WS was WS, but
I recently found a text that really '"makes the case,"
once and for all (but the Oxfordians, Rhodesian Scholars, and
others brainwashed by British Liberal Free Trade,
capNtrade e.g.).

> On the contrary, others include Justices Scalia, OConnor,
> Blackmun and Powell, as the WSJ article noted. Only two current
> Justices (Breyer and Kennedy) openly support the Stratford man.

thus:
what ever it says, Shapiro's last book is just a polemic;
his real "proof" is _1599_;
the fans of de Vere are hopelessly stuck-up --
especially if they went to Harry Potter PS#1.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://entertainment.timesonline.co.....

--Light: A History!
http://wlym.com

From: mpc755 on 25 Apr 2010 17:19

On Apr 25, 5:17 pm, spudnik <Space...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> there is always some missing mass in any fission or
> fusion event, taht's the energy; of course,
> only matter-antimatter reactions approach a complete conversion;
> true?
>

Mass does not convert to energy. Matter transitions to aether. Matter
expands in three dimensional space as it transitions to aether. Matter
increases in volume as it transitions to aether. The physical effect
this transition has on the neighboring aether and matter is energy.

There is no 'missing mass'. The mass which no longer exists as part of
the matter has converted to aether.

When you watch an atomic bomb explode you are watching the physical
effect matter expanding in volume as it transitions to aether has on
the neighboring matter and aether:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16heorrfsgY

'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A.
EINSTEIN'
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf

"If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass
diminishes by L/c2."

The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer
exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as
aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three
dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether
and matter is energy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80%93energy_equivalence

"The equation E = mc2 indicates that energy always exhibits mass in
whatever form the energy takes.[3] It does not imply that mass may be
converted to energy, for modern theory holds that neither mass nor
energy may be destroyed, but only moved from one location to another.
In physics, mass must be differentiated from matter. In cases where
matter particles are created or destroyed, the precursors and products
retain both the original mass and energy, which is unchanged. Mass
energy equivalence also means that mass conservation becomes a
restatement of the law of energy conservation, which is the first law
of thermodynamics."

The products retain the original mass because the product is aether.