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From: Jordon on 15 Jan 2010 10:27 Gordon wrote: > Jordon wrote: > > >> Gordon wrote: >>> Jordon wrote: >> >>>> I wasn't addressing OO, only Gordons claim that he's >>>> never seen anyone using scripts or pivot tables. >> >>> Well as I said, I've worked in several large UK corporations over some >>> years, and they just haven't needed to use VBA or Macros. It does depend >>> on the output from whaterver ERM system you are using - the less >>> sophisticated the more the user is likley to need Macros and VBA. >>> It's just my experience that these are few and far between - certainly >>> not sufficiently frequent to justify the wholesale use of MS Office... >> >> While I don't doubt what you say, understand that there >> are millions of people that work for business that are >> not "large corporations" that can't afford to have their >> own in-house systems designers. As far as "few and far >> between" goes, just open the door of your large corporation >> and look across the street at all of the small business. >> > > I've also worked for a large number of small to medium enterprises as > well - from a 4-man Advertising Agency through to importing mineral > water, amd THEY didn't use macros or VBA either. > Had no need to.... Ok. You can be the expert. No one uses it and all the people I've seen use it don't exist. Hey. I've got an idea... Why don't you visit microsoft.public.excel and see all the people that are looking for answers on features that no one uses? -- Jordon
From: Gordon on 15 Jan 2010 10:40 Jordon wrote: > Gordon wrote: >> Jordon wrote: >> >> >>> Gordon wrote: >>>> Jordon wrote: >>> >>>>> I wasn't addressing OO, only Gordons claim that he's >>>>> never seen anyone using scripts or pivot tables. >>> >>>> Well as I said, I've worked in several large UK corporations over some >>>> years, and they just haven't needed to use VBA or Macros. It does depend >>>> on the output from whaterver ERM system you are using - the less >>>> sophisticated the more the user is likley to need Macros and VBA. >>>> It's just my experience that these are few and far between - certainly >>>> not sufficiently frequent to justify the wholesale use of MS Office... >>> >>> While I don't doubt what you say, understand that there >>> are millions of people that work for business that are >>> not "large corporations" that can't afford to have their >>> own in-house systems designers. As far as "few and far >>> between" goes, just open the door of your large corporation >>> and look across the street at all of the small business. >>> >> >> I've also worked for a large number of small to medium enterprises as >> well - from a 4-man Advertising Agency through to importing mineral >> water, amd THEY didn't use macros or VBA either. >> Had no need to.... > > Ok. You can be the expert. No one uses it and all the > people I've seen use it don't exist. > > Hey. I've got an idea... > Why don't you visit microsoft.public.excel and see all > the people that are looking for answers on features that > no one uses? > I'm not saying that NO-ONE uses macros or VBA. What I AM saying, based on thirty years in commerce, and in companies from very small to pretty large corporations is that the numbers who use it in corporate environments are not sufficient to sustain this "myth" that only Excel is the only thing to use in a commercial environment. And yes I used to post in the Excel groups. The usage of VBA and Macros in commercial environments is NOT common. Don't forget - the people posting in the Excel groups are those with questions - you don't see the MILLIONS who don't need to ask questions because they just USE Excel in an uncomplicated way.
From: Hadron on 15 Jan 2010 10:58 Gordon <gbplinux(a)gmail.com> writes: > Jordon wrote: > >> Gordon wrote: >>> Jordon wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Gordon wrote: >>>>> Jordon wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I wasn't addressing OO, only Gordons claim that he's >>>>>> never seen anyone using scripts or pivot tables. >>>> >>>>> Well as I said, I've worked in several large UK corporations over some >>>>> years, and they just haven't needed to use VBA or Macros. It does depend >>>>> on the output from whaterver ERM system you are using - the less >>>>> sophisticated the more the user is likley to need Macros and VBA. >>>>> It's just my experience that these are few and far between - certainly >>>>> not sufficiently frequent to justify the wholesale use of MS Office... >>>> >>>> While I don't doubt what you say, understand that there >>>> are millions of people that work for business that are >>>> not "large corporations" that can't afford to have their >>>> own in-house systems designers. As far as "few and far >>>> between" goes, just open the door of your large corporation >>>> and look across the street at all of the small business. >>>> >>> >>> I've also worked for a large number of small to medium enterprises as >>> well - from a 4-man Advertising Agency through to importing mineral >>> water, amd THEY didn't use macros or VBA either. >>> Had no need to.... >> >> Ok. You can be the expert. No one uses it and all the >> people I've seen use it don't exist. >> >> Hey. I've got an idea... >> Why don't you visit microsoft.public.excel and see all >> the people that are looking for answers on features that >> no one uses? >> > > I'm not saying that NO-ONE uses macros or VBA. > What I AM saying, based on thirty years in commerce, and in companies > from very small to pretty large corporations is that the numbers who use > it in corporate environments are not sufficient to sustain this "myth" > that only Excel is the only thing to use in a commercial environment. No one said its the only thing. What was said is that OO is not good enough to replace it in many instances. > > And yes I used to post in the Excel groups. > The usage of VBA and Macros in commercial environments is NOT common. It is. You just dont see it. > Don't forget - the people posting in the Excel groups are those with > questions - you don't see the MILLIONS who don't need to ask questions > because they just USE Excel in an uncomplicated way. Or they asked ages ago and it "just works".
From: JEDIDIAH on 15 Jan 2010 10:32 On 2010-01-15, Gordon <gbplinux(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > chrisv wrote: > > >> >> I don't think you're being totally fair, Jed. There is some overlap >> between what these tools can do, and for some people it makes sense to >> use the tool that they are more familiar with, rather than attempt to >> master yet another tool that may provide a more elegant solution in >> the end. > > I think this is the problem isn't it - MS Office is so ingrained into > the computing world psyche that people are (probably) scared to try > something else in case "it doesn't work" - in similar vein I am > increasingly worried that schools in the UK are teaching "Microsoft" > not "computing" and the pointy-click generation will have grown up > from infants not knowing that there ARE alternatives... ....you might want to actually check on that. You may find that the kiddies are using some product you've never even heard of. Also, the kiddies tend to not fixate on individual products anymore. They get the abstract details of what they are doing and are able to apply that to different applications. They may not even be aware that operating systems exist and that different types of machines run different ones. Kids say the darndest things... -- This is a consumer product. ||| World domination simply isn't necessary. / | \
From: TMack on 15 Jan 2010 11:19
Gordon wrote: > Tom Shelton wrote: >> >> >> Well, the biggest thing I can see is automation support. I know that >> OOo has scripting capabilities - but that's not what I'm talking >> about. MSO goes way beyond just having macro's and scripting. You >> can completely automate the whole suite of applications from 3rd >> party apps.. I think OOo does have an sdk for Java or something, >> but MSO is exposes it's api as a com interfaces, making it >> accessible from pretty much any programming language that can be >> used to develop on windows... >> >> I work for a very large company, bigger then MS, and and sometimes, I >> think this whole company runs on excel. They use access and excel >> all the time, and use lots of automation. In fact, my next big >> project is a whole suite of excel add-on's using VSTO - which is >> something I've never had to do before, not normally and office guy :) >> >> Anyway, OOo is a capable product - a bit slow, clunky, and memory >> hungry, but still suitable for many applications - but for many >> enterprise needs it doesn't seem nearly as capable. For instance, >> people here are really begining to use OneNote a lot. We are a >> pretty distributed team with members all over the US - and OneNote >> makes it easy to do collaborative work. Is there anything like >> OneNote in the OOo suite? > > Hmmm. I've worked for several large corporations in the UK and never > saw anyone using VBA or Macros, never mind automation. Most people > couldn't tell me what Pivot tables were either... This whole debate about OOo vs MSO is missing the major point. The vast majority of MS Office users in the workplace barely understand the basic functions of Word. They haven't a clue about Excel or PowerPoint. They might (just) be able to view an Excel spreadsheet or a PowerPoint file but actually doing anything else with either is beyond them. It took them ages to master the few basic Word functions that are within their capability. Employers know that the real cost of migrating to OOo would be a substantial proportion of their workforce being rendered useless overnight and huge costs associated with training people to use OOo instead. It is almost impossible to underestimate the competence of many computer users in the workplace. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to explain slowly and carefully that the best way to search for a file is to use My Computer or Windows Explorer and that the "open file" function in Word does not work the same way! These people would NOT adapt easily despite the extent to which OOo and MS Office are alike in basic functions. -- Tony '04 Ducati ST3, '08 DL650GT, '87 semi-rat LS650, OMF#24 |