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From: Marshall on 30 Sep 2009 17:07
On Sep 30, 3:40 am, "Jesse F. Hughes" <je...(a)phiwumbda.org> wrote:
> Marshall <marshall.spi...(a)gmail.com> writes:
> > On Sep 29, 9:26 am, Aatu Koskensilta <aatu.koskensi...(a)uta.fi> wrote:
>
> >> Nobody in their right mind cares about Google Groups ratings.
>
> > Only insane people care what others think of them? That doesn't
> > seem right.
>
> You have some sort of delusion that Google's rating system accurately
> reflects general opinion about your character?

I didn't say "accurately reflects general opinion"; nonetheless it is
certainly a reflection of others' opinions.


Marshall
From: Marshall on 30 Sep 2009 17:15
On Sep 30, 7:52 am, Aatu Koskensilta <aatu.koskensi...(a)uta.fi> wrote:
> Marshall <marshall.spi...(a)gmail.com> writes:
> > If you did, then presumably your response was intended to annoy, and
> > no further discussion seems likely to be fruitful.
>
>  Dr. Freitnautzer: "Nobody in their right mind eats at McDonald's."
>
>  F.P. Gwollop:     "Only insane people choose not to die of starvation?
>                     That can't be!"

Groups' ratings are the McDonald's of public opinion; fair enough.


> It's quite impossible to have a fruitful discussion with me.

Rather, it's quite impossible to have a fruitful discussion of
Groups' ratings on usenet, that much I know from past
experience. Clearly Google Groups rating system rates
only one star in the general opinion.


Marshall
From: Scott H on 30 Sep 2009 17:19
On Sep 30, 4:26 pm, stevendaryl3...(a)yahoo.com (Daryl McCullough)
wrote:
> Scott H says...
> > If
> > statements can be about Goedel numbers, then Goedel numbers can be
> > about Goedel numbers.
>
> I can't make any sense of that.

I'll try to simplify it:

1. Every statement has a Goedel number.
2. If a statement is 'about' a number, then its Goedel number is also
'about' that number.
3. Some statements are about Goedel numbers.
4. Therefore, there are Goedel numbers that are about Goedel numbers.

[...]

> 3. There is a provability predicate Pr for Peano Arithmetic with the
> property that for any formula Phi,
> If Phi is provable from the axioms of Peano Arithmetic
> then
> Pr(#Phi) is true
> Conversely, if Phi is not provable from the axioms of
> Peano Arithmetic, then
> ~Pr(#Phi) is true.

More accurately, if x proves Phi, then the formula Pr(x, Phi) is
provable, and if x doesn't prove Phi, then the formula ~Pr(x, Phi) is
provable.

[...]

> 5. Applying 4 to the formula ~Pr, we have
>
> G <-> ~Pr(#G)
>
> So, what is the G', G'', etc. that you are talking about?

I have called #G, G'. G'' comes in when we transform #G into the
Goedel number of an equivalent statement.
From: Aatu Koskensilta on 30 Sep 2009 17:17
Marshall <marshall.spight(a)gmail.com> writes:

> On Sep 30, 3:40�am, "Jesse F. Hughes" <je...(a)phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>
>> You have some sort of delusion that Google's rating system accurately
>> reflects general opinion about your character?
>
> I didn't say "accurately reflects general opinion"; nonetheless it is
> certainly a reflection of others' opinions.

"Other's opinions" in the sense of a random and unknown Google groupie's
opinion as to the number of stars one's post is worth. Why should anyone
care about such matters?

--
Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.koskensilta(a)uta.fi)

"Wovon mann nicht sprechen kann, dar�ber muss man schweigen"
- Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus
From: Daryl McCullough on 30 Sep 2009 17:23
Scott H says...

>1. Every statement has a Goedel number.
>2. If a statement is 'about' a number, then its Goedel number is also
>'about' that number.

That doesn't make any sense. What is the number 4 about?

>3. Some statements are about Goedel numbers.
>4. Therefore, there are Goedel numbers that are about Goedel numbers.

I don't think it makes any sense to say that a Godel number is "about"
anything. In any case, I don't see where you are getting an infinite
sequence of G, G', G'', etc.

G could be said to be "about" its Godel number, since it says
that its Godel number is not the Godel number of a provable sentence.
But then G' is the Godel number of G, so G' is "about" whatever G is
about. So there is no G'', G''', etc.

--
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY

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