New usenet hierarchy proposal
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From: Helmut Meukel on 11 May 2010 04:34 "dpb" <none(a)non.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:hsadkd$joe$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > I'm thinking Schmidt doesn't seem to fully realize that the MS groups are just > usenet groups w/ a public server and that simply using any other usenet group > and server will look the same. Or maybe he and his cohorts have a vision of > something other than usenet, too; that part of his discussion I didn't really > follow as to what the words really meant. > > I've seached for national vb (classic) groups on msnews with higher traffic and found only three groups: german, spanish, french. All with more than 300 postings within the last 3 month. The next in line - the italian group - is below 100 posting. There is *no* group in the usenet appropriate for the members of the german microsoft.public.de.vb group. They consider to move to de.comp.lang.misc and try to create a new vb group. Microsoft already announced the date it will shut-down the german goup: > Wann wird das passieren? > Am 1. Juni 2010 wird diese Newsgroup geschlossen. Not enough time to get a new group within the de.comp.lang. name space. Helmut.
From: dpb on 11 May 2010 10:37 Schmidt wrote: > "dpb" <none(a)non.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag > news:hsa83t$9if$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > [establishing an "international group-hierarchy" behind vbclassic.*] > >> That surely seems to me to be overkill--I'll ask again what's >> wrong w/ the existing comp.lang.basic.visual.* hierarchy? > > Basically nothing, but thinking about it there are a few reasons... > > 1. Although the VB.NET users will get appropriate > Web-Forums for their language by MS, I'd suspect, > that many of the devs over there would prefer access > over a NewsClient further (yes, I know about "that MS-NNTP- > bridge" already, but doubt that this client-tool will be "broadly > accepted"). > So, what would be your arguments in comp.lang.basic.visual.* > in case a larger amount of these devs decides, that this is a > proper place for them as well, to discuss "their visual language" > (not even implying, that *any* of them will behave "troll-like") A, I'd wait and see if it actually happens first, and; B. Unless traffic were really much larger than I would envisage to ever happen don't really see it as a _major_ problem, personally, anyway. C. If traffic did justify, _then_ generate the subgroups to match. > 2. I could imagine, that in many countries, where the traffic is > lower than in this group - and maybe the regulars also not > that experienced with usenet, the msnews.microsoft.com- > server is seen as the only choice - and the group(s) there > would definitely die then, after the plug was pulled. If, indeed the non-English language servers don't mirror English-mostly groups, agreed. In that case, agree would need somewhere else. > 3. The "how would we be found"-question... As already mentioned > in another post - this nowadays depends (in case of new > potential group-users of probably "younger age") on a > "well-advertised Info-Website" - which after some time and > cross-linking needs to get a high "google-rank". This rank > could be higher, if we would provide a central info-page, > with a "unified procedure", on how to set-up a NewsClient > for all the different "country-groups at once" - and if this site > would then be cross-referenced not only from sites in english- > speaking countries. > .... >> What I don't follow is why there's any difference in effect >> of the folks who have been following m.p.vb.g.d on the ms >> servers simply continuing as they have except on a different >> server and group that already exists whereever they are located; >> there's no fundamental difference in hooking up their same >> client to point to a different news server (which they're >> going to have to do anyway). > That may seem to be easy for you, since you know how > usenet works - but already the process to subscribe to > one of the "free NewsServers" (in case the ISP, where one > got his DSL-connection from has no such thing to offer) > can be too much for many users who currently only have > the relative simple 'msnews.microsoft.com' setup in the > back of their mind. .... If you're talking about folks who prefer newsreaders over web interfaces and folks already using msnews continuing, to me it seems you _are_ talking to the experienced. I'm showing my age and provincialism (re: usenet) in that personally I'd not care--I figure the folks you'll really want to participate will find it and the ones who only know of usenet via Google groups and its ilk you're mostly better off without. Perhaps the group you're trying to continue isn't in that mold; if so, again, do what think "mostest bestest" and good luck. --
From: Ulrich Korndoerfer on 11 May 2010 12:51 Hi Karl, Karl E. Peterson schrieb: > ... > Hopefully, I can respond. <g> > > I actually "know someone" who might be in a position to facilitate group > creation and propogation, so that may not be as large an issue as it > might seem. Looking into that. > Sounds good. > My gut says sticking with usenet is a better long-term strategy than > going hybrid at this point. If the intent is to keep the community > alive *and* discoverable. > I would agree with this. However my point is, that creating *new* groups in Usenet is in general a cumbersome and timeconsuming process, and, in this special case, has to overcome some ressentiments in the Usenet administration community. For me, new groups should be created, having a meaningful, easy to remember, namespace. Regarding your question from two posts below: > On another point (raised to all here!), is vbclassic or classicvb actually better known (outside the beltway, so to speak) than simply tagging it VB6 and letting that imply 32-bit versions? Was'nt it you that created the "classic" tag to disambiguate VB6/5 etc. from the .NET versions? Anyway, I in the meantime got used to write "VBclassic" or "classic VB" in my posts, whenever it is necessary to differentiate between classic VB and the .NET versions. And my experience is that people accept this terms and use them themselves. -- Ulrich Korndoerfer VB tips, helpers, solutions -> http://www.proSource.de/Downloads/
From: Karl E. Peterson on 11 May 2010 13:48 Ulrich Korndoerfer wrote: > Following a cite of one of his posts regarding how he will proceed in the > case of the MS shutdown: > > http://groups.google.com/group/news.admin.hierarchies/browse_thread/thread/67439c68236e7e35 Heckuva find! Gotta share this, and see what floats up... -- ..NET: It's About Trust! http://vfred.mvps.org
From: Karl E. Peterson on 11 May 2010 13:51
Ulrich Korndoerfer wrote: >> ... >> Hopefully, I can respond. <g> >> >> I actually "know someone" who might be in a position to facilitate group >> creation and propogation, so that may not be as large an issue as it might >> seem. Looking into that. >> > > Sounds good. > >> My gut says sticking with usenet is a better long-term strategy than going >> hybrid at this point. If the intent is to keep the community alive *and* >> discoverable. > > I would agree with this. However my point is, that creating *new* groups in > Usenet is in general a cumbersome and timeconsuming process, and, in this > special case, has to overcome some ressentiments in the Usenet administration > community. Well yeah, this guy I know is on the management board of the Big 8. :-) > For me, new groups should be created, having a meaningful, easy to remember, > namespace. > > Regarding your question from two posts below: > >> On another point (raised to all here!), is vbclassic or classicvb actually >> better known (outside the beltway, so to speak) than simply tagging it VB6 >> and letting that imply 32-bit versions? > > Was'nt it you that created the "classic" tag to disambiguate VB6/5 etc. from > the .NET versions? I bow to the marketing wizards at Coca-Cola on that usage. I may have been one of the first to steal it from them, for this case, though. ;-) -- ..NET: It's About Trust! http://vfred.mvps.org |