OMG Oracle/Sun ... out of the loop developer panicking
in [Java Programming]
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From: BGB / cr88192 on 27 Feb 2010 20:06 "Arne Vajh�j" <arne(a)vajhoej.dk> wrote in message news:4b89acd8$0$284$14726298(a)news.sunsite.dk... > On 27-02-2010 16:33, BGB / cr88192 wrote: >> "Arne Vajh�j"<arne(a)vajhoej.dk> wrote in message >> news:4b898c1a$0$274$14726298(a)news.sunsite.dk... >>> On 27-02-2010 13:20, BGB / cr88192 wrote: >>>> "DuncanIdaho"<Duncan.Idaho2008(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:heednY9dA5xMshXWnZ2dnUVZ8jqdnZ2d(a)bt.com... >>>>> Oh my goodness what has been happening. >>>>> >>>>> I've been 'out of the loop' since before Christmas 2009. Just got back >>>>> to >>>>> the UK and found an email in my inbox from Oracle telling me they've >>>>> bought Sun ... catastrophe ... or is it. >>>>> >>>>> Can anyone point me to any discussion groups ... I need to figure out >>>>> what >>>>> this means to my huge (many years) time investment in Java. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks now where's the scotch, think I need a drink. >>>> >>>> even if, by some chance, Sun's Java implementation died (or became >>>> expensive), it is unlikely that open-source implementations could be >>>> stopped... >>>> >>>> after all, there is Kaffe, Harmony, GCJ, ... >>> >>> And SUN Java. >>> >>> OpenJDK is (mostly) SUN Java as open source. >> >> granted, yes, but I was still assuming if Sun's implementation died, >> which >> could also be taken to imply if OpenJDK just so happened to disappear as >> well... > > The license ensure that: > - everyone that has already downloaded the source can distribute it > - everyone that has download a binary can request the source (if Oracle > has the authority to pull the project, then they also have the > obligation to meet the license requirements) > granted... anyways, the point was that Java is relatively safe, not that there is any reasonably probability of the main implementations disappearing... it is roughly along the same lines as: "what of the future of C if GCC imploded under its own weight?..." or: "what of the future of computing if MS died and Windows went with it?...". these are very unlikely, but if by some chance they happened, computing would go on... a worldwide EMP burst, however, would a bit more likely screw over the future of computing... > Arne >
From: BGB / cr88192 on 27 Feb 2010 20:11 "Arne Vajh�j" <arne(a)vajhoej.dk> wrote in message news:4b89ba1f$0$283$14726298(a)news.sunsite.dk... > On 27-02-2010 18:30, Lew wrote: >> BGB / cr88192 wrote: >>>>> after all, there is Kaffe, Harmony, GCJ, ... >> >> Arne Vajh�j wrote: >>>> And SUN Java. >>>> >>>> OpenJDK is (mostly) SUN Java as open source. >> >> BGB / cr88192 wrote: >>> granted, yes, but I was still assuming if Sun's implementation died, >>> which could also be taken to imply if OpenJDK just so happened to >>> disappear as well... >>> >>> in any case though, it is all unlikely... >> >> I have yet to hear of GCJ working well. It certainly hasn't for me. I >> wonder if everyone who keeps recommending it has actually tried it. > > I did try several years ago and it was very crappy. > > But from what I hear, then it is OK today. > > But unless one is required to use software packages that > start with G, then I can not see much reason to not pick > SUN Java/OpenJDK that is certified last version of Java. > I guess how good it is depends on what one wants from it... admittedly, I have had a much better experience with Harmony than with GCJ (errm, because Harmony generally actually works...), but then again I am not exactly a serious Java developer either... > Arne
From: BGB / cr88192 on 27 Feb 2010 20:17 "Steve Sobol" <sjsobol(a)JustThe.net> wrote in message news:MPG.25f33fe7e141c1399898a8(a)news.justthe.net... > In article <heednY9dA5xMshXWnZ2dnUVZ8jqdnZ2d(a)bt.com>, Duncan.Idaho2008 > @googlemail.com says... >> >> Oh my goodness what has been happening. >> >> I've been 'out of the loop' since before Christmas 2009. Just got back >> to the UK and found an email in my inbox from Oracle telling me they've >> bought Sun ... catastrophe ... or is it. >> >> Can anyone point me to any discussion groups ... I need to figure out >> what this means to my huge (many years) time investment in Java. >> >> Thanks now where's the scotch, think I need a drink. >> >> Idaho > > Really, aside from the fact that Larry Ellison is an arrogant jerkoff > who thinks all of his products are perfect... remember his marketing > campaign from a few years back? "Can't break it. Can't break in" while > people were actively finding exploits in his database software... > > Aside from that, as other people have mentioned, Sun is a good fit for > Oracle. > > I would have been OK with IBM buying them too, as IBM also has invested > heavily in Java, and has contributed a fair amount of code back to the > community. > > As long as Microsoft didn't buy them, I'm not going to worry too much. > but, they could buy Sun and them provide a "clean migration path" to the "vastly superior" .NET Framework... (and while they are at it, deprecate future support for non-Windows OS's, non-PE/COFF binary code, ...). or such...
From: Lew on 27 Feb 2010 20:25 BGB / cr88192 wrote: >>>> granted, yes, but I was still assuming if Sun's implementation died, >>>> which >>>> could also be taken to imply if OpenJDK just so happened to disappear as >>>> well... Lew wrote: >> OMG, the fear-mongering! BGB / cr88192 wrote: > IMO, it would only be "fear mongering" if the event described actually had > some reasonable probability of happening. everyone is probably fairly safe > as the particular scenario is somewhat unlikely... On the contrary, fear-mongering simply means psychological manipulation by spreading fear. It is done for reasons independent of the likelihood of a catastrophe, and the term is applied specifically when the potential for catastrophe is wildly exaggerated. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_mongering> "Fear is a strong emotion and it can be manipulated to steer people into making emotional rather than reasoned choices." -- Lew
From: BGB / cr88192 on 28 Feb 2010 01:46
"Lew" <noone(a)lewscanon.com> wrote in message news:hmcglk$869$1(a)news.albasani.net... > BGB / cr88192 wrote: >>>>> granted, yes, but I was still assuming if Sun's implementation died, >>>>> which >>>>> could also be taken to imply if OpenJDK just so happened to disappear >>>>> as >>>>> well... > > Lew wrote: >>> OMG, the fear-mongering! > > BGB / cr88192 wrote: >> IMO, it would only be "fear mongering" if the event described actually >> had some reasonable probability of happening. everyone is probably fairly >> safe as the particular scenario is somewhat unlikely... > > On the contrary, fear-mongering simply means psychological manipulation by > spreading fear. It is done for reasons independent of the likelihood of a > catastrophe, and the term is applied specifically when the potential for > catastrophe is wildly exaggerated. > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_mongering> > "Fear is a strong emotion and it can be manipulated to steer people into > making emotional rather than reasoned choices." > granted, but to claim one is doing this, it would be first needed that the person say that it could or was likely to happen (or beyond this, that there would actually be a notably bad outcome...). even if this were to happen, "people stuck using something like Apache Harmony instead" is not exactly a terrifying outcome... it makes about as much sense as trying to spread terror WRT the GPL, exaggerating "well, the GPL requires sharing source and doesn't mix well with commercial software" into "it is a communism-inspired virus threatening to destroy the software industry...". granted, I no longer feel that the GPL is the best strategy to open-source (it has a light-side, and a dark-side as well), and thus anymore would prefer to have BSD and/or public-domain options available (in addition to GPL), but this is a bit of a difference. in any case, people still get software, and in the latter cases, they still get free software with free source code, but with the differences being more subtle, and the much less certain question as to which strategies lead to the best overall outcome, both for developers and end-users, and in a world where there may be many different layers of abstraction involving different parties opperating essentially independent of each other and with differing goals and ideals, ... or such... > -- > Lew |