Thinking of a scanner
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From: Andy Hewitt on 22 Feb 2010 08:07 Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > Andy Hewitt <thewildrover(a)me.com> wrote: > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: [..] > > > (and if looking for half-decent included scanning software is silly, > > > what sort of software would be worth considering getting. Domestic > > > scanning - magazine articles, old photographs (prints, negatives, and > > > slides), that sort of thing.) > > > > I've been more than happy with my old Epscon 4490. > > Error or comment? - the `con'. Error, just a typo. > >It's a little pricier > > than the basic scanners, but does two strips of negatives, and hardware > > digital cleaning > > What does that mean? When scanning negatives, you often see particles of dust, scratches etc. on the image. The Epson 4490 has what's called 'Digital ICE', which is a system for cleaning up the images before it saves to the file. Saves a destructive image edit, and post-processing work. > >(although that is *slow*, it does save post processing > > time), > > Machine time is best spent where it's best spent, depending... Indeed. > > plus works fast enough on normal prints and documents (seconds > > mostly). > > 720 seconds is seconds - typical A4 scan time here... In this context, I was meaning not minutes, so less than a minute. > > The EpsonScan software is pretty good, IMHO. It does just work, and > > makes scanning multiple non-uniform images an absolute doddle. It > > handles sharpening, restoration and white balance etc. > > Sharpening, eh? Hmm. Sounds like the software's come on quite a lot > since the version of EpsonScan that I've got. Yup. I *think* it does curves too. > Does it do de-skewing? That's something I could really do with. Not that I'm aware of. However, the de-skewing tools in iPhoto and Aperture are pretty good, being non-destructive. Thus, I leave as much post-processing as I can to Aperture, or PhotoShop Elements etc. Many of the software tools are still better. > > I also own a copy > > of VueScan, which is OK for single images, but gets messy with > > multiples. It does have a rather cool OCR feature though, which seems to > > do a *reasonable* job. > > I've never met OCR software that's any better than the stuff I used back > in 1990, hooked up to a Mac Classic IIRC (or possible an SE/30). I > forget what that was, but all the OCR software I've met since has been > very much worse. > > Yeah, OCR has got worse on Macs since 1990... > > ReadIris in particular is a fearsomely unreliable and poorly-implemented > rip-off that I'd suggest only to those I want to suffer. Yeah, I have that, it does get documents done, but I only use it occasionally. At least I did until I found that VueScan was a lot better. > > I'd say that does all you need it to. I never bother with TWAIN myself, > > TWAIN's just broken in my experience. > > > I just launch EpsonScan, and batch scan to a working folder, > > Batch scan, eh? Document feeder, or are you talking about manual > loading? Manual loading, although it can batch scan two strips of negatives/slides into separate images. > > then open > > in whatever I'm using to post-process (sometimes I load them straight > > into Aperture, sometimes it's others for different processes). > > Uhuh. What does Aperture do for you, then? Mostly manages all my images (35000, 130GB of them) - it's essentially a 'Digital Asset Manager' - but also does non-destructive editing, so you don't get image degredation as you edit. It can also send an image to PhotoShop is you need to do more complex editing. -- Andy Hewitt <http://web.me.com/andrewhewitt1/>
From: Andy Hewitt on 22 Feb 2010 08:40 Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > Andy Hewitt <thewildrover(a)me.com> wrote: > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: [..] > > When scanning negatives, you often see particles of dust, scratches etc. > > on the image. The Epson 4490 has what's called 'Digital ICE', which is a > > system for cleaning up the images before it saves to the file. Saves a > > destructive image edit, and post-processing work. > > Hmmm - i.e., gives you a destructive edit before the data's even left > the scanner, or so it seems. Yes, although I expect it's a bit like the processing that goes on in a digital camera, so the processing it done before the data is saved into an image file. When using JPGs, this means you don't get image degredation on the initial process. [..] > > Yup. I *think* it does curves too. > > Does curves? How do you mean? As in a 'curves adjuster'. Used by many image editors, such as PhotoShop, GIMP or Graphic Converter. It's a graph with a straight line from bottom left to top right, which you can move about to adjust the tone of the image. [..] > > Yeah, I have that, it does get documents done, > ReadIris is not worth even a tenth of the asking price. I paid it's true value :-). I agree though, it's a real pain to use, but I don't have much else available. > > but I only use it > > occasionally. At least I did until I found that VueScan was a lot > > better. > > > > > > I'd say that does all you need it to. I never bother with TWAIN myself, > > > > > > TWAIN's just broken in my experience. > > > > > > > I just launch EpsonScan, and batch scan to a working folder, > > > > > > Batch scan, eh? Document feeder, or are you talking about manual > > > loading? > > > > Manual loading, although it can batch scan two strips of > > negatives/slides into separate images. > > Righto. And you can put more than one print/document on as well, and it automatically finds them, and shows them as a neat thumbnail image. You can also apply separate adjustments to each image too. [..] > > Mostly manages all my images (35000, 130GB of them) - it's essentially a > > 'Digital Asset Manager' > > Eh? Surely that's what the Mac itself is? In a more basic way, yes. Aperture is a step up from iPhoto. There's no way I could catalogue my 35000 images in the manner I want to now. When I only had a few hundred, it was easy enough to bung them into a folder system. Now it's into tens of thousands, and many of them are cross referred in many different locations, Aperture (or iPhoto) makes sense. I make use of albums, 'smart' albums and keywords, and with more traditional functions (such as folders), they all combine to make a very flexible and powerful filing system. It's a bit like having relational vs flat-file databases. > >- but also does non-destructive editing, so you > > don't get image degredation as you edit. It can also send an image to > > PhotoShop is you need to do more complex editing. > > Uhuh - fine for those with lots of money to spend on very pricey > software for professionals who make money by using that software every > day. > > I can't justify purchasing Photoshop, I don't think. No, nor can I, I have Elements myself, which is a tad more reasonable (�57 rather than �800). The upgrade to Aperture 3 wasn't too bad coming from Aperture 2. I'm not a pro, but I am interested in my photography enough to want the best I can get (although I can't afford Lightroom), and for me Aperture gives me control and results I'm happy with. -- Andy Hewitt <http://web.me.com/andrewhewitt1/>
From: J. J. Lodder on 22 Feb 2010 09:36 Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > J. J. Lodder <nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl> wrote: > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > > > > J. J. Lodder <nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl> wrote: > > > > > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've got a scanner, but what with it being old and USB 1.1 and, > > > > > due to mis-handling before it was donated to me, has a glass with > > > > > dust on the underside that interferes with image capture, a > > > > > replacement would be nice (~12 minutes for a full colour A4 scan - > > > > > okay, so it's only machine time, but really...) > > > > > > > > > > Assuming I don't want to go to the expense of buying Photoshop or > > > > > anything heavy duty like that, whatever I buy would do well to > > > > > come with some half-competent scanning software. > > > > > > > > > > I've STFW and it's bewildering - anyone got any suggestions on a > > > > > scanner with half-decent scanning software included, 4800 dpi > > > > > (ish), and a USB 2 and/or FW/FW800 interface? All to connect to > > > > > an Intel Core2Duo Mac running 10.6.2 (and above, as and when it > > > > > arrives)? > > > > > > > > Any scanner will scan to Graphic Converter, > > > > > > Eh? No, none of the ones I've tried ever have. See below. > > > > > > > assuming you have that, > > > > which is more than half-competent, > > > > > > The scanning software which came with Epson's scanning software can do > > > colour restoration on faded old colour photos rather well. > > > > They all do. > > None of the other scanning software I've met does so. We are talking decent quality scanners, intended for slide scanning, with a hardware based dust removal channel, I hope? Not some crummy office one with a side ad-on?? > And since you claimed that any scanner will scan to Graphic Converter, > and since I've got solid proof that you're wrong, I don't think I'll be > trusting your claim here either. > > > > Do you know a way to restore colour[1] with Graphic Converter? > > > > GC uses the toolbox that comes with the scanner. > > (with a more pleasant interface) > > Well, no it doesn't. No UI, no nothing. The only response I've ever > had from GraphicConverter when trying to TWAIN acquire - is crashing. Any TWAIN-compatible one, which they all are nowadays. > That's all I've ever got from GKON when trying to scan - a crash. Tell Thorsten Lemke. He is quite helpful. (and added a scanner-related feature once, when I asked) > > > Graphic Converter cannot acquire a scan from my current scanner. > > > Nothing appears in the `Source' list when I try `File->Acquire' (normal > > > or open source). > > > > > > Nor does my scanner appear in the `Print and Fax' system prefs pane > > > (list on the left, so Mac Help directs). > > > > > > I have run the software installer that Epson supplies for the scanner in > > > question. I've read in the GraphicConverter manual of plug-ins that are > > > required, but I can't find any trace of anything which might be what the > > > manual talks about in that line. > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > No, sorry, no idea. > > All scanners I ever had just worked. > > None of those that I've tried to use with Graphic Converter have worked > with it, not one. Our experiences differ, Jan
From: J. J. Lodder on 22 Feb 2010 09:36 Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > Andy Hewitt <thewildrover(a)me.com> wrote: > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > > > > Andy Hewitt <thewildrover(a)me.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > [..] > > > > > (and if looking for half-decent included scanning software is silly, > > > > > what sort of software would be worth considering getting. Domestic > > > > > scanning - magazine articles, old photographs (prints, negatives, and > > > > > slides), that sort of thing.) > > > > > > > > I've been more than happy with my old Epscon 4490. > > > > > > Error or comment? - the `con'. > > > > Error, just a typo. > > Ah well - never mind... > > > > >It's a little pricier > > > > than the basic scanners, but does two strips of negatives, and hardware > > > > digital cleaning > > > > > > What does that mean? > > > > When scanning negatives, you often see particles of dust, scratches etc. > > on the image. The Epson 4490 has what's called 'Digital ICE', which is a > > system for cleaning up the images before it saves to the file. Saves a > > destructive image edit, and post-processing work. > > Hmmm - i.e., gives you a destructive edit before the data's even left > the scanner, or so it seems. You want an option to edit the raw sensor data, by hand? (bypassing the no doubt destructive processing in the scanner?) Jan
From: Rowland McDonnell on 22 Feb 2010 11:09
J. J. Lodder <nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl> wrote: > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > > Andy Hewitt <thewildrover(a)me.com> wrote: > > > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > > Andy Hewitt <thewildrover(a)me.com> wrote: [snip] > > > > >It's a little pricier than the basic scanners, but does two strips > > > > >of negatives, and hardware digital cleaning > > > > > > > > What does that mean? > > > > > > When scanning negatives, you often see particles of dust, scratches etc. > > > on the image. The Epson 4490 has what's called 'Digital ICE', which is a > > > system for cleaning up the images before it saves to the file. Saves a > > > destructive image edit, and post-processing work. > > > > Hmmm - i.e., gives you a destructive edit before the data's even left > > the scanner, or so it seems. > > You want an option to edit the raw sensor data, by hand? > (bypassing the no doubt destructive processing in the scanner?) As you know very well, that's a different issue. The scanner has to process the raw sensor data to give the best measurement it can of the image. But adjusting raw data to give calibrated data (which is what that process involves) is quite different to software deciding to replace datum A with datum B, because it's guessing that's `noise removal'. Rowland. -- Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell(a)dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking |