What is wrong with this argument?
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From: SOB) on 30 Mar 2005 16:34 On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:21:30 GMT, Bob <rmoss(a)hvc.rr.com> wrote: >If not everything needs a cause, then the universe does not need a cause. Not true. The Universe is mutable, and therefore cannot be the source of its own existence. If it were the source of its own existence then it could not be mutable because its essence would include existence and therefore it could only be that one thing it was designed to be. -- Million Mom March For Gun Confiscation http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/mmm.html "If you build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. If you set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life."
From: Hector Plasmic on 30 Mar 2005 17:42 >> what caused the supreme being, etc? > Prove that the Supreme Being needs a cause. In order to logically prove things about this "Supreme Being" of yours, we'll need to know something more about it, don't you think? Why not start with showing us some reason to believe that it exists, and some way to determine its properties? Until then, I'd say that if your "Supreme Being" needs a cause, the human imagination would seem to be adequate to the task, and there doesn't seem to be any need to discuss it further (sans some reason to think it actually exists).
From: Hector Plasmic on 30 Mar 2005 17:43 >>> What do you all mean by "intervenes in our lives"? >>> What kind of "intervention"? >> That'd be a mystery, don't you reckon? :-) > OK, then what is meant by "mysterious intervention in > our lives"? That'd be a mystery, don't you reckon? :-) Sorry, it's turtles all the way down. Ask a substantive question.
From: Will Twentyman on 30 Mar 2005 17:53 The great philosopher-criminologist wrote: > What is wrong with saying that God works in Mysterious ways? Ok, I'll answer from the theist perspective. 1) It's not an argument. 2) It really means "I don't know", but doesn't offer to try to find out possible answers. 3) It costs you credibility in any discussion with agnostics/atheists/those who don't believe in God as you do. -- Will Twentyman email: wtwentyman at copper dot net
From: SOB) on 30 Mar 2005 20:21
On 30 Mar 2005 21:45:23 GMT, Enkidu <zwi6iv402(a)sneakemail.com> wrote: >So? If God is imutable, he cannot change. That is correct as far as it goes. >If He cannot change, He >cannot act, He cannot create, move, think. You need to present an argument to support that claim. The Supreme Being can act without changing because that act is to cause Being. -- Million Mom March For Gun Confiscation http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/mmm.html "If you build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. If you set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life." |