Wonderful!
in [Physics]
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From: GogoJF on 16 Dec 2009 23:13 On Dec 16, 10:09 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 16, 11:06 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:01 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Dec 16, 10:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:08 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > wrote: > > > > > > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > > > >On Dec 16, 8:34=A0pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > >> >> 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > > > > > >> >> it's still travelling through the train? > > > > > >> >Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > > > >> OK. Since the angle is so small we can ignore the small effects of > > > > > >> sin/cos of it being different from 0/1. So... the platform observer will > > > > > >> see the light on the train moving at either 1.25 c or 0.75 c > > > > > >The platform observer does not 'see the light on the train'. That is > > > > > >one of the biggest misconceptions of light. You don't watch light > > > > > >propagate like a thrown baseball. What you 'see' is light when it hits > > > > > >your eye. > > > > > > That's why I added the 'dust' to the train. Some of the laser going from > > > > > the back to the front would be scattered by the dust, so that the > > > > > embankment observer could see the laser pulse propagate. > > > > > But the light which is reflected by the dust is still going to travel > > > > through the aether which is at rest relative to the embankment. You're > > > > still not 'seeing the light propagate on the train'. What you are > > > > 'seeing' is light reflected by dust particles traveling at 'c' > > > > relative to the aether. > > > > > > Or, to put it another way. A 1 light year long train, travelling at c/4. > > > > > When the front of the train is 1/4 light year away, the rear of the train > > > > > is 1 1/4 light year away. At that time, a laser is fired from the rear to > > > > > the front. One year later, the front of the train reaches the embankment > > > > > observer since it was travelling at c/4 and was 1/4 light year away. At > > > > > the same time, the laser pulse reaches the front of the train since it was > > > > > travelling a distance of 1 light year for one year. Therefore, as far as > > > > > the trackside observer is concerned, the light travelled 1 1/4 light year > > > > > in 1 year, or 1.25 c. > > > > > Again, this is incorrect. In your gadenken, I'm assuming the aether is > > > > at rest relative to the train. When the light reaches the Observer on > > > > the embankment, the light has traveled from where the back of the > > > > train *is*. The light has traveled 1 light year from where the back of > > > > the train *is* to where the Observer on the embankment is. > > > > > Since the aether is at rest relative to the train, where the lightning > > > > strike occurred in three dimensional space relative to the Observer on > > > > the embankment is meaningless. > > > > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > > I don't know how else to explain this but with flashes of light in > > > > water. > > > > > There is a round pool on the train. The side of the pool is made of > > > > glass. There are Observers on the train with their faces pushed up > > > > against the glass. > > > > > There is an Observer on the embankment. > > > > > A flash goes off in the middle of the pool. > > > > > It just so happens when the flash travels through the water, travels > > > > through the glass, and is about to reach the Observers on the train, > > > > the pool is right next to the Observer on the embankment. > > > > > The Observer on the embankment presses his face against the glass just > > > > like the Observers on the train do. > > > > > The light travels the same distance to ALL of the Observers. > > > > > The light has traveled from where the center of the pool *is* to where > > > > the Observers on the train *are* when the Observers on the train see > > > > the light. > > > > > The light has traveled from where the center of the pool *is* to where > > > > the Observer on the embankment *is* when the Observer on the > > > > embankment sees the light. > > > > > The light has traveled relative to the water which is at rest relative > > > > to the train. > > > > > In your gadenken, since I am assuming the aether is at rest relative > > > > to the train, the light has traveled at 'c' relative to the aether > > > > which is at rest relative to the train. > > > > > In you gadenken, if an Observer on the embankment and an Observer on > > > > the train are standing side by side when the light reaches both of > > > > them, the light has traveled the same distance to each of them because > > > > the light is traveling relative to the aether, and besides the last > > > > instant where the light is no longer on the train but on the > > > > embankment right before it reaches the Observer on the embankment, the > > > > light had traveled through the aether which is at rest relative to the > > > > train. > > > > I have a better gadenken. A modified version of your gadenken. > > > > The 1 light year long train is full of water. > > > > The laser is fired at the back of the train in the water. > > > > The Observer at the front of the train has his face pushed up against > > > a plate glass which separates them from the water. > > > > Right when the light exits the glass and is about to reach the > > > Observer on the train, an Observer on the embankment stands right next > > > to the Observer on the train. > > > > Now, obviously the train is moving 1/4 the speed of light, so the > > > Observer on the embankment is in trouble, but right before the train > > > hits the Observer on the embankment the light from the laser reaches > > > both Observers. > > > > The light has traveled the same distance through the water to both > > > Observers. > > > Well, I certainly like the way you carry on your conversation. > > If I could only convince others light travels at 'c' relative to the > aether we might actually get somewhere. My thought is that c is the ether- what say you>
From: mpc755 on 16 Dec 2009 23:18 On Dec 16, 11:13 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Dec 16, 10:09 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 16, 11:06 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > On Dec 16, 10:01 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:08 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > > > > >On Dec 16, 8:34=A0pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > > > > > > >> >> it's still travelling through the train? > > > > > > >> >Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > > > > >> OK. Since the angle is so small we can ignore the small effects of > > > > > > >> sin/cos of it being different from 0/1. So... the platform observer will > > > > > > >> see the light on the train moving at either 1.25 c or 0.75 c > > > > > > >The platform observer does not 'see the light on the train'. That is > > > > > > >one of the biggest misconceptions of light. You don't watch light > > > > > > >propagate like a thrown baseball. What you 'see' is light when it hits > > > > > > >your eye. > > > > > > > That's why I added the 'dust' to the train. Some of the laser going from > > > > > > the back to the front would be scattered by the dust, so that the > > > > > > embankment observer could see the laser pulse propagate. > > > > > > But the light which is reflected by the dust is still going to travel > > > > > through the aether which is at rest relative to the embankment. You're > > > > > still not 'seeing the light propagate on the train'. What you are > > > > > 'seeing' is light reflected by dust particles traveling at 'c' > > > > > relative to the aether. > > > > > > > Or, to put it another way. A 1 light year long train, travelling at c/4. > > > > > > When the front of the train is 1/4 light year away, the rear of the train > > > > > > is 1 1/4 light year away. At that time, a laser is fired from the rear to > > > > > > the front. One year later, the front of the train reaches the embankment > > > > > > observer since it was travelling at c/4 and was 1/4 light year away. At > > > > > > the same time, the laser pulse reaches the front of the train since it was > > > > > > travelling a distance of 1 light year for one year. Therefore, as far as > > > > > > the trackside observer is concerned, the light travelled 1 1/4 light year > > > > > > in 1 year, or 1.25 c. > > > > > > Again, this is incorrect. In your gadenken, I'm assuming the aether is > > > > > at rest relative to the train. When the light reaches the Observer on > > > > > the embankment, the light has traveled from where the back of the > > > > > train *is*. The light has traveled 1 light year from where the back of > > > > > the train *is* to where the Observer on the embankment is. > > > > > > Since the aether is at rest relative to the train, where the lightning > > > > > strike occurred in three dimensional space relative to the Observer on > > > > > the embankment is meaningless. > > > > > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > > > I don't know how else to explain this but with flashes of light in > > > > > water. > > > > > > There is a round pool on the train. The side of the pool is made of > > > > > glass. There are Observers on the train with their faces pushed up > > > > > against the glass. > > > > > > There is an Observer on the embankment. > > > > > > A flash goes off in the middle of the pool. > > > > > > It just so happens when the flash travels through the water, travels > > > > > through the glass, and is about to reach the Observers on the train, > > > > > the pool is right next to the Observer on the embankment. > > > > > > The Observer on the embankment presses his face against the glass just > > > > > like the Observers on the train do. > > > > > > The light travels the same distance to ALL of the Observers. > > > > > > The light has traveled from where the center of the pool *is* to where > > > > > the Observers on the train *are* when the Observers on the train see > > > > > the light. > > > > > > The light has traveled from where the center of the pool *is* to where > > > > > the Observer on the embankment *is* when the Observer on the > > > > > embankment sees the light. > > > > > > The light has traveled relative to the water which is at rest relative > > > > > to the train. > > > > > > In your gadenken, since I am assuming the aether is at rest relative > > > > > to the train, the light has traveled at 'c' relative to the aether > > > > > which is at rest relative to the train. > > > > > > In you gadenken, if an Observer on the embankment and an Observer on > > > > > the train are standing side by side when the light reaches both of > > > > > them, the light has traveled the same distance to each of them because > > > > > the light is traveling relative to the aether, and besides the last > > > > > instant where the light is no longer on the train but on the > > > > > embankment right before it reaches the Observer on the embankment, the > > > > > light had traveled through the aether which is at rest relative to the > > > > > train. > > > > > I have a better gadenken. A modified version of your gadenken. > > > > > The 1 light year long train is full of water. > > > > > The laser is fired at the back of the train in the water. > > > > > The Observer at the front of the train has his face pushed up against > > > > a plate glass which separates them from the water. > > > > > Right when the light exits the glass and is about to reach the > > > > Observer on the train, an Observer on the embankment stands right next > > > > to the Observer on the train. > > > > > Now, obviously the train is moving 1/4 the speed of light, so the > > > > Observer on the embankment is in trouble, but right before the train > > > > hits the Observer on the embankment the light from the laser reaches > > > > both Observers. > > > > > The light has traveled the same distance through the water to both > > > > Observers. > > > > Well, I certainly like the way you carry on your conversation. > > > If I could only convince others light travels at 'c' relative to the > > aether we might actually get somewhere. > > My thought is that c is the ether- what say you> Not sure what you mean by 'c is the ether'. I think the aether is the substance of space. Not sure you saw this previous post on this, and other, thread, but my main theory is Aether Displacement. The aether is displaced by matter. The aether is not at rest when displaced and pushes back. The pressure the aether exerts towards the matter is gravity. Not sure you are familiar with the double slit experiment with C-60 molecules, but the C-60 molecule creates a displacement wave in the substance of space and it is the displacement wave which enters and exits multiple slits while the C-60 molecule enters and exits a single slit.
From: GogoJF on 16 Dec 2009 23:26 On Dec 16, 10:09 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 16, 11:06 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:01 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Dec 16, 10:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:08 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > wrote: > > > > > > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > > > >On Dec 16, 8:34=A0pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > >> >> 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > > > > > >> >> it's still travelling through the train? > > > > > >> >Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > > > >> OK. Since the angle is so small we can ignore the small effects of > > > > > >> sin/cos of it being different from 0/1. So... the platform observer will > > > > > >> see the light on the train moving at either 1.25 c or 0.75 c > > > > > >The platform observer does not 'see the light on the train'. That is > > > > > >one of the biggest misconceptions of light. You don't watch light > > > > > >propagate like a thrown baseball. What you 'see' is light when it hits > > > > > >your eye. > > > > > > That's why I added the 'dust' to the train. Some of the laser going from > > > > > the back to the front would be scattered by the dust, so that the > > > > > embankment observer could see the laser pulse propagate. > > > > > But the light which is reflected by the dust is still going to travel > > > > through the aether which is at rest relative to the embankment. You're > > > > still not 'seeing the light propagate on the train'. What you are > > > > 'seeing' is light reflected by dust particles traveling at 'c' > > > > relative to the aether. > > > > > > Or, to put it another way. A 1 light year long train, travelling at c/4. > > > > > When the front of the train is 1/4 light year away, the rear of the train > > > > > is 1 1/4 light year away. At that time, a laser is fired from the rear to > > > > > the front. One year later, the front of the train reaches the embankment > > > > > observer since it was travelling at c/4 and was 1/4 light year away. At > > > > > the same time, the laser pulse reaches the front of the train since it was > > > > > travelling a distance of 1 light year for one year. Therefore, as far as > > > > > the trackside observer is concerned, the light travelled 1 1/4 light year > > > > > in 1 year, or 1.25 c. > > > > > Again, this is incorrect. In your gadenken, I'm assuming the aether is > > > > at rest relative to the train. When the light reaches the Observer on > > > > the embankment, the light has traveled from where the back of the > > > > train *is*. The light has traveled 1 light year from where the back of > > > > the train *is* to where the Observer on the embankment is. > > > > > Since the aether is at rest relative to the train, where the lightning > > > > strike occurred in three dimensional space relative to the Observer on > > > > the embankment is meaningless. > > > > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > > I don't know how else to explain this but with flashes of light in > > > > water. > > > > > There is a round pool on the train. The side of the pool is made of > > > > glass. There are Observers on the train with their faces pushed up > > > > against the glass. > > > > > There is an Observer on the embankment. > > > > > A flash goes off in the middle of the pool. > > > > > It just so happens when the flash travels through the water, travels > > > > through the glass, and is about to reach the Observers on the train, > > > > the pool is right next to the Observer on the embankment. > > > > > The Observer on the embankment presses his face against the glass just > > > > like the Observers on the train do. > > > > > The light travels the same distance to ALL of the Observers. > > > > > The light has traveled from where the center of the pool *is* to where > > > > the Observers on the train *are* when the Observers on the train see > > > > the light. > > > > > The light has traveled from where the center of the pool *is* to where > > > > the Observer on the embankment *is* when the Observer on the > > > > embankment sees the light. > > > > > The light has traveled relative to the water which is at rest relative > > > > to the train. > > > > > In your gadenken, since I am assuming the aether is at rest relative > > > > to the train, the light has traveled at 'c' relative to the aether > > > > which is at rest relative to the train. > > > > > In you gadenken, if an Observer on the embankment and an Observer on > > > > the train are standing side by side when the light reaches both of > > > > them, the light has traveled the same distance to each of them because > > > > the light is traveling relative to the aether, and besides the last > > > > instant where the light is no longer on the train but on the > > > > embankment right before it reaches the Observer on the embankment, the > > > > light had traveled through the aether which is at rest relative to the > > > > train. > > > > I have a better gadenken. A modified version of your gadenken. > > > > The 1 light year long train is full of water. > > > > The laser is fired at the back of the train in the water. > > > > The Observer at the front of the train has his face pushed up against > > > a plate glass which separates them from the water. > > > > Right when the light exits the glass and is about to reach the > > > Observer on the train, an Observer on the embankment stands right next > > > to the Observer on the train. > > > > Now, obviously the train is moving 1/4 the speed of light, so the > > > Observer on the embankment is in trouble, but right before the train > > > hits the Observer on the embankment the light from the laser reaches > > > both Observers. > > > > The light has traveled the same distance through the water to both > > > Observers. > > > Well, I certainly like the way you carry on your conversation. > > If I could only convince others light travels at 'c' relative to the > aether we might actually get somewhere. The definition of c remains the relationship between the electrostatic and electromagnetic measure. Since we have two proportions, that when we divide one into the other, we derive c- then the first question should be is "what is the base speed of the electrostatic measure"? And the second "what is the base speed of the electromagnetic measure"?
From: mpc755 on 16 Dec 2009 23:32 On Dec 16, 11:26 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Dec 16, 10:09 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 16, 11:06 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > On Dec 16, 10:01 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:08 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > > > > >On Dec 16, 8:34=A0pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > > > > > > >> >> it's still travelling through the train? > > > > > > >> >Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > > > > >> OK. Since the angle is so small we can ignore the small effects of > > > > > > >> sin/cos of it being different from 0/1. So... the platform observer will > > > > > > >> see the light on the train moving at either 1.25 c or 0.75 c > > > > > > >The platform observer does not 'see the light on the train'. That is > > > > > > >one of the biggest misconceptions of light. You don't watch light > > > > > > >propagate like a thrown baseball. What you 'see' is light when it hits > > > > > > >your eye. > > > > > > > That's why I added the 'dust' to the train. Some of the laser going from > > > > > > the back to the front would be scattered by the dust, so that the > > > > > > embankment observer could see the laser pulse propagate. > > > > > > But the light which is reflected by the dust is still going to travel > > > > > through the aether which is at rest relative to the embankment. You're > > > > > still not 'seeing the light propagate on the train'. What you are > > > > > 'seeing' is light reflected by dust particles traveling at 'c' > > > > > relative to the aether. > > > > > > > Or, to put it another way. A 1 light year long train, travelling at c/4. > > > > > > When the front of the train is 1/4 light year away, the rear of the train > > > > > > is 1 1/4 light year away. At that time, a laser is fired from the rear to > > > > > > the front. One year later, the front of the train reaches the embankment > > > > > > observer since it was travelling at c/4 and was 1/4 light year away. At > > > > > > the same time, the laser pulse reaches the front of the train since it was > > > > > > travelling a distance of 1 light year for one year. Therefore, as far as > > > > > > the trackside observer is concerned, the light travelled 1 1/4 light year > > > > > > in 1 year, or 1.25 c. > > > > > > Again, this is incorrect. In your gadenken, I'm assuming the aether is > > > > > at rest relative to the train. When the light reaches the Observer on > > > > > the embankment, the light has traveled from where the back of the > > > > > train *is*. The light has traveled 1 light year from where the back of > > > > > the train *is* to where the Observer on the embankment is. > > > > > > Since the aether is at rest relative to the train, where the lightning > > > > > strike occurred in three dimensional space relative to the Observer on > > > > > the embankment is meaningless. > > > > > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > > > I don't know how else to explain this but with flashes of light in > > > > > water. > > > > > > There is a round pool on the train. The side of the pool is made of > > > > > glass. There are Observers on the train with their faces pushed up > > > > > against the glass. > > > > > > There is an Observer on the embankment. > > > > > > A flash goes off in the middle of the pool. > > > > > > It just so happens when the flash travels through the water, travels > > > > > through the glass, and is about to reach the Observers on the train, > > > > > the pool is right next to the Observer on the embankment. > > > > > > The Observer on the embankment presses his face against the glass just > > > > > like the Observers on the train do. > > > > > > The light travels the same distance to ALL of the Observers. > > > > > > The light has traveled from where the center of the pool *is* to where > > > > > the Observers on the train *are* when the Observers on the train see > > > > > the light. > > > > > > The light has traveled from where the center of the pool *is* to where > > > > > the Observer on the embankment *is* when the Observer on the > > > > > embankment sees the light. > > > > > > The light has traveled relative to the water which is at rest relative > > > > > to the train. > > > > > > In your gadenken, since I am assuming the aether is at rest relative > > > > > to the train, the light has traveled at 'c' relative to the aether > > > > > which is at rest relative to the train. > > > > > > In you gadenken, if an Observer on the embankment and an Observer on > > > > > the train are standing side by side when the light reaches both of > > > > > them, the light has traveled the same distance to each of them because > > > > > the light is traveling relative to the aether, and besides the last > > > > > instant where the light is no longer on the train but on the > > > > > embankment right before it reaches the Observer on the embankment, the > > > > > light had traveled through the aether which is at rest relative to the > > > > > train. > > > > > I have a better gadenken. A modified version of your gadenken. > > > > > The 1 light year long train is full of water. > > > > > The laser is fired at the back of the train in the water. > > > > > The Observer at the front of the train has his face pushed up against > > > > a plate glass which separates them from the water. > > > > > Right when the light exits the glass and is about to reach the > > > > Observer on the train, an Observer on the embankment stands right next > > > > to the Observer on the train. > > > > > Now, obviously the train is moving 1/4 the speed of light, so the > > > > Observer on the embankment is in trouble, but right before the train > > > > hits the Observer on the embankment the light from the laser reaches > > > > both Observers. > > > > > The light has traveled the same distance through the water to both > > > > Observers. > > > > Well, I certainly like the way you carry on your conversation. > > > If I could only convince others light travels at 'c' relative to the > > aether we might actually get somewhere. > > The definition of c remains the relationship between the electrostatic > and electromagnetic measure. Since we have two proportions, that when > we divide one into the other, we derive c- then the first question > should be is "what is the base speed of the electrostatic measure"? > And the second "what is the base speed of the electromagnetic measure"? 'c' is the speed at which waves propagate through the aether.
From: GogoJF on 16 Dec 2009 23:39
On Dec 16, 10:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 16, 11:26 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:09 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Dec 16, 11:06 pm, GogoJF <jfgog...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:01 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Dec 16, 10:08 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > > > > > >On Dec 16, 8:34=A0pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > >> >> 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > > > > > > > >> >> it's still travelling through the train? > > > > > > > >> >Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > > > > > >> OK. Since the angle is so small we can ignore the small effects of > > > > > > > >> sin/cos of it being different from 0/1. So... the platform observer will > > > > > > > >> see the light on the train moving at either 1.25 c or 0.75 c > > > > > > > >The platform observer does not 'see the light on the train'. That is > > > > > > > >one of the biggest misconceptions of light. You don't watch light > > > > > > > >propagate like a thrown baseball. What you 'see' is light when it hits > > > > > > > >your eye. > > > > > > > > That's why I added the 'dust' to the train. Some of the laser going from > > > > > > > the back to the front would be scattered by the dust, so that the > > > > > > > embankment observer could see the laser pulse propagate. > > > > > > > But the light which is reflected by the dust is still going to travel > > > > > > through the aether which is at rest relative to the embankment. You're > > > > > > still not 'seeing the light propagate on the train'. What you are > > > > > > 'seeing' is light reflected by dust particles traveling at 'c' > > > > > > relative to the aether. > > > > > > > > Or, to put it another way. A 1 light year long train, travelling at c/4. > > > > > > > When the front of the train is 1/4 light year away, the rear of the train > > > > > > > is 1 1/4 light year away. At that time, a laser is fired from the rear to > > > > > > > the front. One year later, the front of the train reaches the embankment > > > > > > > observer since it was travelling at c/4 and was 1/4 light year away. At > > > > > > > the same time, the laser pulse reaches the front of the train since it was > > > > > > > travelling a distance of 1 light year for one year. Therefore, as far as > > > > > > > the trackside observer is concerned, the light travelled 1 1/4 light year > > > > > > > in 1 year, or 1.25 c. > > > > > > > Again, this is incorrect. In your gadenken, I'm assuming the aether is > > > > > > at rest relative to the train. When the light reaches the Observer on > > > > > > the embankment, the light has traveled from where the back of the > > > > > > train *is*. The light has traveled 1 light year from where the back of > > > > > > the train *is* to where the Observer on the embankment is. > > > > > > > Since the aether is at rest relative to the train, where the lightning > > > > > > strike occurred in three dimensional space relative to the Observer on > > > > > > the embankment is meaningless. > > > > > > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > > > > I don't know how else to explain this but with flashes of light in > > > > > > water. > > > > > > > There is a round pool on the train. The side of the pool is made of > > > > > > glass. There are Observers on the train with their faces pushed up > > > > > > against the glass. > > > > > > > There is an Observer on the embankment. > > > > > > > A flash goes off in the middle of the pool. > > > > > > > It just so happens when the flash travels through the water, travels > > > > > > through the glass, and is about to reach the Observers on the train, > > > > > > the pool is right next to the Observer on the embankment. > > > > > > > The Observer on the embankment presses his face against the glass just > > > > > > like the Observers on the train do. > > > > > > > The light travels the same distance to ALL of the Observers. > > > > > > > The light has traveled from where the center of the pool *is* to where > > > > > > the Observers on the train *are* when the Observers on the train see > > > > > > the light. > > > > > > > The light has traveled from where the center of the pool *is* to where > > > > > > the Observer on the embankment *is* when the Observer on the > > > > > > embankment sees the light. > > > > > > > The light has traveled relative to the water which is at rest relative > > > > > > to the train. > > > > > > > In your gadenken, since I am assuming the aether is at rest relative > > > > > > to the train, the light has traveled at 'c' relative to the aether > > > > > > which is at rest relative to the train. > > > > > > > In you gadenken, if an Observer on the embankment and an Observer on > > > > > > the train are standing side by side when the light reaches both of > > > > > > them, the light has traveled the same distance to each of them because > > > > > > the light is traveling relative to the aether, and besides the last > > > > > > instant where the light is no longer on the train but on the > > > > > > embankment right before it reaches the Observer on the embankment, the > > > > > > light had traveled through the aether which is at rest relative to the > > > > > > train. > > > > > > I have a better gadenken. A modified version of your gadenken. > > > > > > The 1 light year long train is full of water. > > > > > > The laser is fired at the back of the train in the water. > > > > > > The Observer at the front of the train has his face pushed up against > > > > > a plate glass which separates them from the water. > > > > > > Right when the light exits the glass and is about to reach the > > > > > Observer on the train, an Observer on the embankment stands right next > > > > > to the Observer on the train. > > > > > > Now, obviously the train is moving 1/4 the speed of light, so the > > > > > Observer on the embankment is in trouble, but right before the train > > > > > hits the Observer on the embankment the light from the laser reaches > > > > > both Observers. > > > > > > The light has traveled the same distance through the water to both > > > > > Observers. > > > > > Well, I certainly like the way you carry on your conversation. > > > > If I could only convince others light travels at 'c' relative to the > > > aether we might actually get somewhere. > > > The definition of c remains the relationship between the electrostatic > > and electromagnetic measure. Since we have two proportions, that when > > we divide one into the other, we derive c- then the first question > > should be is "what is the base speed of the electrostatic measure"? > > And the second "what is the base speed of the electromagnetic measure"? > > 'c' is the speed at which waves propagate through the aether. what is the absolute speed of the ether? |