Wonderful!
in [Physics]
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From: mpc755 on 17 Dec 2009 12:59 On Dec 17, 12:54 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 17 dic, 14:30, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 17, 12:25 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > wrote: > > > > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > >On Dec 17, 10:42=A0am, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > > >wrote: > > > >> mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > >> >I knew you would not be able to understand this. > > > > >> I understand fine. It is you who doesn't understand that your > > > >> theory doesn't make predictions consistent with existing measurements, > > > >> and therefore is automatically wrong. > > > >My theory does make predictions consistent with existing measurements. > > > > Which measurement has light travelling from A to B at 1.25 * c by "riding" > > > an object moving at 0.25 * c in that frame of reference? > > > > >What you are doing which is incorrect is you are tying the lightning > > > >strike to a point in three dimensional space which is meaningless. > > > > That's how Einstein laid out his thought experiment! Go back and read > > > it if you don't understand it. > > > > >Einstein's train gedanken is modified so the water is at rest relative > > > >to the embankment. Lightning strikes occur in the water at A/A' and B/ > > > >B'. When determining how far the light travels to the Observer at M', > > > >does the Observer at M' measure to A' and B' or to A and B? > > > > A and A' are the same point when the lightning strikes. B and B' are the > > > same point. The prime just determines which reference frame it is. > > > > >The Observer at M' on the train measures to A and B and determines the > > > >lightning strikes were simultaneous just like the Observer at M does.. > > > > Experiments contradict this. Which part of "Automatically Wrong" don't > > > you understand? > > > > >The Observer at M' measuring to A' and B' in order to determine how > > > >far the light traveled to reach M' when the light is traveling through > > > >water which is at rest relative to the embankment is incorrect. > > > > What's this fascination with water? We're talking about electromagnetic > > > radiation, not water waves or even sound. > > > I'm talking about light waves traveling though water. > > > There is a single LIGHTNING STRIKE at A/A' and a single LIGHTNING > > STRIKE at B/B'. The water is at rest relative to the embankment. Where > > does the Observer at M' measure to in order to determine how far the > > LIGHT travels? Does the Observer at M' measure to A' and B', or does > > the Observer at M' measure to A and B in order to determine how far > > the LIGHT travels to M'? > > Observer M' is passing by the location of observer M, at time t0. M' > is moving at a speed v, relative to observer M, on the direction of x. > All this is happening in deep space, without an gravitational mass > (including water). Later, at time t1, observer M sees TWO simultaneous > light signals A and B arriving from opposite directions along x. > > Question: a) Since observer M', in the interval of time (t1-t0) has > already moved towards the source of the light signal B, did he observe > the light signal coming from B before observer M, or did he not? > b) Since at time t1, the ligth signal coming from point A is at the > location of observer M, is it true that the light signal coming from > point A has some travel to do to arrive to the location of observer > M', or is it not true? > c) From (a) and (b) is it true that observer M' will declare that he > received two non simultaneous light signals (first the ligt signal > from point B, later the light signal from point A), or is it not true? > > Miguel Rios The water is at rest relative to the embankment. There is a single LIGHTNING STRIKE in the water at A/A' and a single LIGHTNING STRIKE in the water at B/B'. Where does the Observer at M' measure to in order to determine how far the LIGHT travels? Does the Observer at M' measure to A' and B', or does the Observer at M' measure to A and B in order to determine how far the LIGHT travels to M'?
From: paparios on 17 Dec 2009 13:03 On 17 dic, 14:59, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 17, 12:54 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > The water is at rest relative to the embankment. There is a single > LIGHTNING STRIKE in the water at A/A' and a single LIGHTNING STRIKE in > the water at B/B'. Where does the Observer at M' measure to in order > to determine how far the LIGHT travels? Does the Observer at M' > measure to A' and B', or does the Observer at M' measure to A and B in > order to determine how far the LIGHT travels to M'? Observer M' is passing by the location of observer M, at time t0. M' is moving at a speed v, relative to observer M, on the direction of x. All this is happening in deep space, without an gravitational mass (including water). Later, at time t1, observer M sees TWO simultaneous light signals A and B arriving from opposite directions along x. Question: a) Since observer M', in the interval of time (t1-t0) has already moved towards the source of the light signal B, did he observe the light signal coming from B before observer M, or did he not? b) Since at time t1, the ligth signal coming from point A is at the location of observer M, is it true that the light signal coming from point A has some travel to do to arrive to the location of observer M', or is it not true? c) From (a) and (b) is it true that observer M' will declare that he received two non simultaneous light signals (first the ligt signal from point B, later the light signal from point A), or is it not true? Miguel Rios
From: mpc755 on 17 Dec 2009 13:05 On Dec 17, 1:03 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 17 dic, 14:59, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Dec 17, 12:54 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > The water is at rest relative to the embankment. There is a single > > LIGHTNING STRIKE in the water at A/A' and a single LIGHTNING STRIKE in > > the water at B/B'. Where does the Observer at M' measure to in order > > to determine how far the LIGHT travels? Does the Observer at M' > > measure to A' and B', or does the Observer at M' measure to A and B in > > order to determine how far the LIGHT travels to M'? > > Observer M' is passing by the location of observer M, at time t0. M' > is moving at a speed v, relative to observer M, on the direction of x. > All this is happening in deep space, without an gravitational mass > (including water). Later, at time t1, observer M sees TWO simultaneous > light signals A and B arriving from opposite directions along x. > > Question: a) Since observer M', in the interval of time (t1-t0) has > already moved towards the source of the light signal B, did he observe > the light signal coming from B before observer M, or did he not? > b) Since at time t1, the ligth signal coming from point A is at the > location of observer M, is it true that the light signal coming from > point A has some travel to do to arrive to the location of observer > M', or is it not true? > c) From (a) and (b) is it true that observer M' will declare that he > received two non simultaneous light signals (first the ligt signal > from point B, later the light signal from point A), or is it not true? > > Miguel Rios The water is at rest relative to the embankment. There is a single LIGHTNING STRIKE in the water at A/A' and a single LIGHTNING STRIKE in the water at B/B'. Where does the Observer at M' measure to in order to determine how far the LIGHT travels? Does the Observer at M' measure to A' and B', or does the Observer at M' measure to A and B in order to determine how far the LIGHT travels to M'?
From: paparios on 17 Dec 2009 13:12 On 17 dic, 15:05, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 17, 1:03 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > The water is at rest relative to the embankment. There is a single > LIGHTNING STRIKE in the water at A/A' and a single LIGHTNING STRIKE in > the water at B/B'. Where does the Observer at M' measure to in order > to determine how far the LIGHT travels? Does the Observer at M' > measure to A' and B', or does the Observer at M' measure to A and B in > order to determine how far the LIGHT travels to M'? Observer M' is passing by the location of observer M, at time t0. M' is moving at a speed v, relative to observer M, on the direction of x. All this is happening in deep space, without any gravitational mass (including water). Later, at time t1, observer M sees TWO simultaneous light signals A and B arriving from opposite directions along x. Question: a) Since observer M', in the interval of time (t1-t0) has already moved towards the source of the light signal B, did he observe the light signal coming from B before observer M, or did he not? b) Since at time t1, the ligth signal coming from point A is at the location of observer M, is it true that the light signal coming from point A has some travel to do to arrive to the location of observer M', or is it not true? c) From (a) and (b) is it true that observer M' will declare that he received two non simultaneous light signals (first the light signal from point B, later the light signal from point A), or is it not true? Miguel Rios
From: mpc755 on 17 Dec 2009 13:21
On Dec 17, 1:05 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 17, 1:03 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On 17 dic, 14:59, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Dec 17, 12:54 pm, "papar...(a)gmail.com" <papar...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > The water is at rest relative to the embankment. There is a single > > > LIGHTNING STRIKE in the water at A/A' and a single LIGHTNING STRIKE in > > > the water at B/B'. Where does the Observer at M' measure to in order > > > to determine how far the LIGHT travels? Does the Observer at M' > > > measure to A' and B', or does the Observer at M' measure to A and B in > > > order to determine how far the LIGHT travels to M'? > > > Observer M' is passing by the location of observer M, at time t0. M' > > is moving at a speed v, relative to observer M, on the direction of x. > > All this is happening in deep space, without an gravitational mass > > (including water). Later, at time t1, observer M sees TWO simultaneous > > light signals A and B arriving from opposite directions along x. > > > Question: a) Since observer M', in the interval of time (t1-t0) has > > already moved towards the source of the light signal B, did he observe > > the light signal coming from B before observer M, or did he not? > > b) Since at time t1, the ligth signal coming from point A is at the > > location of observer M, is it true that the light signal coming from > > point A has some travel to do to arrive to the location of observer > > M', or is it not true? > > c) From (a) and (b) is it true that observer M' will declare that he > > received two non simultaneous light signals (first the ligt signal > > from point B, later the light signal from point A), or is it not true? > > > Miguel Rios > > The water is at rest relative to the embankment. There is a single > LIGHTNING STRIKE in the water at A/A' and a single LIGHTNING STRIKE in > the water at B/B'. Where does the Observer at M' measure to in order > to determine how far the LIGHT travels? Does the Observer at M' > measure to A' and B', or does the Observer at M' measure to A and B in > order to determine how far the LIGHT travels to M'? Since no one is able to answer this question, I will have to answer it. Since the light waves associated with the lightning strikes are traveling relative to the water which is at rest relative to the embankment, the Observer at M' measures to A and B in order to determine how far the light traveled to M'. With the water being at rest relative to the embankment, measuring to A' and B' is meaningless. |