Wonderful!
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From: mpc755 on 16 Dec 2009 18:53 On Dec 16, 6:22 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 16, 6:03 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > wrote: > > > > > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > >The train and embankment are 1 millimeter apart. A and A' are 1 > > >millimeter apart, B and B' are 1 millimeter apart and M and M' are 1 > > >millimeter apart at the time of the lightning strikes. A and B are 1 > > >light year from M and A' and B' are 1 light year from M'. The train > > >and embankment are moving at 1/4 the speed of light relative to one > > >another. > > ... > > >Once there is only one knee-deep pool of water, and a single lightning > > >strike at A/A' and a single lightning strike at B/B', where the light > > >originates from and how the light travels depends upon which frame of > > >reference the pool of water is at rest relative to. If the knee-deep > > >pool of water is at rest relative to the embankment, measuring to the > > >marks left on the train in order to determine where the light traveled > > >from to M' is meaningless. Likewise, if the knee-deep pool of water is > > >at rest relative to the train, measuring to the marks left on the > > >embankment in order to determine where the light traveled from to M is > > >meaningless. > > > Now you're getting stupid trying to get your aether to be at rest in > > all frames to explain light moving at c in all frames. But I'll have > > fun with it. Someone on board the train (moving at 1/4 c) shines a light > > beam toward the embankment at a right angle to the train motion. > > 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > > it's still travelling through the train? > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > 2) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, after > > it has passed through the window of the train and it is now passing through > > the aether of the embankment? > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > 3) What will someone on the embankment measuring the velocity of the beam > > measure for its velocity? > > The light will be measured to be 'c'. > > > Now, the light is at one end of the train, A'. The light beam is aimed > > almost toward B', but not quite. It is offset a tiny angle epsilon, > > toward the embankment. (since the train is 2 light years long [A'-M'-B'] > > but only 1 mm from the embankment, epsilon can be _very_ tiny) There is an > > open window along its path. > > > 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > > it's still travelling through the train? > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > 2) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, after > > it has passed through the window of the train and it is now passing through > > the aether of the embankment? > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > 3) What will someone on the embankment measuring the velocity of the beam > > measure for its velocity? > > The light will be measured at 'c'. > > The mistake you are making is tying the emission point to a particular > point in three dimensional space and saying the light travels at 'c' > relative to a frame of reference the destination exist in. > > This is not who light works. The light is always traveling at 'c' > relative to the aether. Since the aether is at rest relative to the > train, the light travels at 'c' while on the train. When the light > exits the train and is traveling along the embankment, where the > aether is also at rest, the light travels at 'c' relative to the > embankment. > > That is why in my animation, light from A' can reach M earlier than > does the light from A. This is due to the light traveling at 'c' > relative to the aether which is at rest relative to the train. If the > train is long enough and the moving fast enough relative to the > embankment, the aether could exit the train and reach M ahead of the > light traveling from A. The light always travels at 'c' relative to > the aether. If you measure where the light originated from on the > train at A' from the perspective of the Observer at M, you do not > measure to where A' was in three dimensional space relative to the > Observer at M at the time of emission. This does not represent where > the light traveled from. > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. Let me try and summarize this. If you take another look at my animation, let's focus on the light emitted from A'. Let's say ALL of the aether is at rest relative to the train. This means we have to completely ignore what is going on with the light waves emitted from A and B because they are inaccurate. So, when the light from A' reaches M, the light has traveled from where A' *is*. It has traveled from where A' *is* when the light wave reaches M because it is traveling at 'c' relative to the aether which is at rest relative to the train. Where A' is in three dimensional space at the time the light wave was emitted relative to M is meaningless in terms of where the light traveled from to M. Again, this is NOT emitter theory. It just so happens to appear to be emitter theory because A' is at rest relative to the aether.
From: mpc755 on 16 Dec 2009 18:58 On Dec 16, 6:22 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 16, 6:03 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > wrote: > > > > > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > >The train and embankment are 1 millimeter apart. A and A' are 1 > > >millimeter apart, B and B' are 1 millimeter apart and M and M' are 1 > > >millimeter apart at the time of the lightning strikes. A and B are 1 > > >light year from M and A' and B' are 1 light year from M'. The train > > >and embankment are moving at 1/4 the speed of light relative to one > > >another. > > ... > > >Once there is only one knee-deep pool of water, and a single lightning > > >strike at A/A' and a single lightning strike at B/B', where the light > > >originates from and how the light travels depends upon which frame of > > >reference the pool of water is at rest relative to. If the knee-deep > > >pool of water is at rest relative to the embankment, measuring to the > > >marks left on the train in order to determine where the light traveled > > >from to M' is meaningless. Likewise, if the knee-deep pool of water is > > >at rest relative to the train, measuring to the marks left on the > > >embankment in order to determine where the light traveled from to M is > > >meaningless. > > > Now you're getting stupid trying to get your aether to be at rest in > > all frames to explain light moving at c in all frames. But I'll have > > fun with it. Someone on board the train (moving at 1/4 c) shines a light > > beam toward the embankment at a right angle to the train motion. > > 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > > it's still travelling through the train? > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > 2) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, after > > it has passed through the window of the train and it is now passing through > > the aether of the embankment? > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > 3) What will someone on the embankment measuring the velocity of the beam > > measure for its velocity? > > The light will be measured to be 'c'. > > > Now, the light is at one end of the train, A'. The light beam is aimed > > almost toward B', but not quite. It is offset a tiny angle epsilon, > > toward the embankment. (since the train is 2 light years long [A'-M'-B'] > > but only 1 mm from the embankment, epsilon can be _very_ tiny) There is an > > open window along its path. > > > 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > > it's still travelling through the train? > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > 2) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, after > > it has passed through the window of the train and it is now passing through > > the aether of the embankment? > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > 3) What will someone on the embankment measuring the velocity of the beam > > measure for its velocity? > > The light will be measured at 'c'. > > The mistake you are making is tying the emission point to a particular > point in three dimensional space and saying the light travels at 'c' > relative to a frame of reference the destination exist in. > > This is not who light works. The light is always traveling at 'c' > relative to the aether. Since the aether is at rest relative to the > train, the light travels at 'c' while on the train. When the light > exits the train and is traveling along the embankment, where the > aether is also at rest, the light travels at 'c' relative to the > embankment. > > That is why in my animation, light from A' can reach M earlier than > does the light from A. This is due to the light traveling at 'c' > relative to the aether which is at rest relative to the train. If the > train is long enough and the moving fast enough relative to the > embankment, the aether could exit the train and reach M ahead of the > light traveling from A. The light always travels at 'c' relative to > the aether. If you measure where the light originated from on the > train at A' from the perspective of the Observer at M, you do not > measure to where A' was in three dimensional space relative to the > Observer at M at the time of emission. This does not represent where > the light traveled from. > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. Let me try and summarize this. If you take another look at my animation, let's focus on the light emitted from A'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWTaXMElUk Let's say ALL of the aether is at rest relative to the train. This means we have to completely ignore what is going on with the light waves emitted from A and B because they are inaccurate. So, when the light from A' reaches M, the light has traveled from where A' *is* to where M *is* when the light reaches M. It is traveling at 'c' relative to the aether which is at rest relative to the train. Where A' was in three dimensional space relative to M at the time the light wave was emitted is meaningless in terms of where the light traveled from to M. Again, this is NOT emitter theory. It just so happens to appear to be emitter theory because A' is at rest relative to the aether.
From: BURT on 16 Dec 2009 19:20 On Dec 16, 3:58 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 16, 6:22 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Dec 16, 6:03 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > wrote: > > > > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > >The train and embankment are 1 millimeter apart. A and A' are 1 > > > >millimeter apart, B and B' are 1 millimeter apart and M and M' are 1 > > > >millimeter apart at the time of the lightning strikes. A and B are 1 > > > >light year from M and A' and B' are 1 light year from M'. The train > > > >and embankment are moving at 1/4 the speed of light relative to one > > > >another. > > > ... > > > >Once there is only one knee-deep pool of water, and a single lightning > > > >strike at A/A' and a single lightning strike at B/B', where the light > > > >originates from and how the light travels depends upon which frame of > > > >reference the pool of water is at rest relative to. If the knee-deep > > > >pool of water is at rest relative to the embankment, measuring to the > > > >marks left on the train in order to determine where the light traveled > > > >from to M' is meaningless. Likewise, if the knee-deep pool of water is > > > >at rest relative to the train, measuring to the marks left on the > > > >embankment in order to determine where the light traveled from to M is > > > >meaningless. > > > > Now you're getting stupid trying to get your aether to be at rest in > > > all frames to explain light moving at c in all frames. But I'll have > > > fun with it. Someone on board the train (moving at 1/4 c) shines a light > > > beam toward the embankment at a right angle to the train motion. > > > 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > > > it's still travelling through the train? > > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > 2) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, after > > > it has passed through the window of the train and it is now passing through > > > the aether of the embankment? > > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > 3) What will someone on the embankment measuring the velocity of the beam > > > measure for its velocity? > > > The light will be measured to be 'c'. > > > > Now, the light is at one end of the train, A'. The light beam is aimed > > > almost toward B', but not quite. It is offset a tiny angle epsilon, > > > toward the embankment. (since the train is 2 light years long [A'-M'-B'] > > > but only 1 mm from the embankment, epsilon can be _very_ tiny) There is an > > > open window along its path. > > > > 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > > > it's still travelling through the train? > > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > 2) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, after > > > it has passed through the window of the train and it is now passing through > > > the aether of the embankment? > > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > > > 3) What will someone on the embankment measuring the velocity of the beam > > > measure for its velocity? > > > The light will be measured at 'c'. > > > The mistake you are making is tying the emission point to a particular > > point in three dimensional space and saying the light travels at 'c' > > relative to a frame of reference the destination exist in. > > > This is not who light works. The light is always traveling at 'c' > > relative to the aether. Since the aether is at rest relative to the > > train, the light travels at 'c' while on the train. When the light > > exits the train and is traveling along the embankment, where the > > aether is also at rest, the light travels at 'c' relative to the > > embankment. > > > That is why in my animation, light from A' can reach M earlier than > > does the light from A. This is due to the light traveling at 'c' > > relative to the aether which is at rest relative to the train. If the > > train is long enough and the moving fast enough relative to the > > embankment, the aether could exit the train and reach M ahead of the > > light traveling from A. The light always travels at 'c' relative to > > the aether. If you measure where the light originated from on the > > train at A' from the perspective of the Observer at M, you do not > > measure to where A' was in three dimensional space relative to the > > Observer at M at the time of emission. This does not represent where > > the light traveled from. > > > Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > Let me try and summarize this. > > If you take another look at my animation, let's focus on the light > emitted from A'. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWTaXMElUk > > Let's say ALL of the aether is at rest relative to the train. This > means we have to completely ignore what is going on with the light > waves emitted from A and B because they are inaccurate. > > So, when the light from A' reaches M, the light has traveled from > where A' *is* to where M *is* when the light reaches M. It is > traveling at 'c' relative to the aether which is at rest relative to > the train. > > Where A' was in three dimensional space relative to M at the time the > light wave was emitted is meaningless in terms of where the light > traveled from to M. > > Again, this is NOT emitter theory. It just so happens to appear to be > emitter theory because A' is at rest relative to the aether.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I just want to say that all of theory needs to be transcended mpc. Mitch Raemsch
From: Michael Moroney on 16 Dec 2009 20:34 mpc755 <mpc755(a)gmail.com> writes: >> Someone on board the train (moving at 1/4 c) shines a light >> beam toward the embankment at a right angle to the train motion. >> 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when >> it's still travelling through the train? >Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. OK. Since (you claim) the aether on the train is moving with it at 1/4 c, the light beam on the train, as observed by someone on the embankment, will be the vector sum of c toward the embankment and c/4 at right angles (along with the train) or at about 1.03 c, and at an angle of 76 degrees while on the train, making a sudden angle change to 90 degrees (right angle) and c at the transition from the train's aether to the embankment's aether. Everything on the train should appear distorted due to the angle change of 14 degrees. >> Now, the light is at one end of the train, A'. The light beam is aimed >> almost toward B', but not quite. It is offset a tiny angle epsilon, >> toward the embankment. (since the train is 2 light years long [A'-M'-B'] >> but only 1 mm from the embankment, epsilon can be _very_ tiny) There is an >> open window along its path. >> >> 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when >> it's still travelling through the train? >Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. OK. Since the angle is so small we can ignore the small effects of sin/cos of it being different from 0/1. So... the platform observer will see the light on the train moving at either 1.25 c or 0.75 c (depending on direction of motion), making a sudden transition to c when it leaves the train and changes aethers. This could be verified by experiment, with say a laser being shone through a dust-filled train. The reflections from the dust particles will propagate along the train at either 1.25 c or 0.75 c according to the platform observer when the laser is switched on. If there is stationary dust along the embankment, the laser will be seen to propagate at c once it leaves the train. Now....can you point to observations/experiments where these predictions of your aether theory are verified?
From: mpc755 on 16 Dec 2009 21:20
On Dec 16, 8:34 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > >> Someone on board the train (moving at 1/4 c) shines a light > >> beam toward the embankment at a right angle to the train motion. > >> 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > >> it's still travelling through the train? > >Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > OK. Since (you claim) the aether on the train is moving with it at > 1/4 c, the light beam on the train, as observed by someone on the > embankment, will be the vector sum of c toward the embankment and c/4 > at right angles (along with the train) or at about 1.03 c, and at an angle > of 76 degrees while on the train, making a sudden angle change to 90 > degrees (right angle) and c at the transition from the train's aether to > the embankment's aether. Everything on the train should appear distorted > due to the angle change of 14 degrees. > > >> Now, the light is at one end of the train, A'. The light beam is aimed > >> almost toward B', but not quite. It is offset a tiny angle epsilon, > >> toward the embankment. (since the train is 2 light years long [A'-M'-B'] > >> but only 1 mm from the embankment, epsilon can be _very_ tiny) There is an > >> open window along its path. > > >> 1) What is the velocity of the light beam relative to the aether, when > >> it's still travelling through the train? > >Light travels at 'c' relative to the aether. > > OK. Since the angle is so small we can ignore the small effects of > sin/cos of it being different from 0/1. So... the platform observer will > see the light on the train moving at either 1.25 c or 0.75 c The platform observer does not 'see the light on the train'. That is one of the biggest misconceptions of light. You don't watch light propagate like a thrown baseball. What you 'see' is light when it hits your eye. You are still tying the emission point to a particular point in three dimensional space relative to the Observer on the embankment. A rock is tossed into the middle of a stream. Does the wave propagate outward at the same speed in all directions from where the rock was originally tossed into the water, or does the wave propagate outward in all directions at the same speed relative to the moving water? The wave ripples outward at the same speed in all directions relative to the water. When the wave comes ashore, it has traveled from where the center of the wave *is* to where the shore *is*. The wave has propagated outward in all directions at the same speed relative to the water. Replace the rock with a flash of light. The flash of light propagates outward at the same speed in all directions relative to the water. When the flash reaches the shore it has traveled form where the center of the flash *is* to where the shore *is*. The flash has propagated outward in all directions at the same speed relative to the water. Now remove the water. The flash of light propagates outward at the same speed in all directions relative to the aether. The flash has propagated outward in all directions at the same speed relative to the aether. > (depending on > direction of motion), making a sudden transition to c when it leaves the > train and changes aethers. This could be verified by experiment, with > say a laser being shone through a dust-filled train. The reflections from > the dust particles will propagate along the train at either 1.25 c or 0.75 c > according to the platform observer when the laser is switched on. If there > is stationary dust along the embankment, the laser will be seen to > propagate at c once it leaves the train. > > Now....can you point to observations/experiments where these predictions > of your aether theory are verified? |