Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Smiler on 6 Aug 2008 00:13 "JM" <JM20000000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:6db979c1-79a0-4d30-8eab-e33e41c81e40(a)u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com... On Aug 4, 10:47 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > On Aug 5, 1:05 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 4, 3:54 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > > >news:147d2d46-ff33-4aac-b29a-7e24af243840(a)k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Aug 3, 8:56 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > > >> > On Aug 3, 4:29 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> >> On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 15:24:56 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn > > > >> >> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > >> >> wrote > > > >> >> in alt.atheism: > > > > >> >>> On Aug 3, 8:12?am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >> >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >> >>>>> On Aug 2, 8:53 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>> On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:08:55 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn > > > >> >>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > >> >>>>>> wrote > > > >> >>>>>> in alt.atheism: > > > >> >>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2:30?pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> > > > >> >>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >> >>>>>> ... > > > >> >>>>>>>>> Discuss it with John after the resurrection. > > > >> >>>>>>>> No proof of this alleged "resurrection", is there? > > > >> >>>>>>> Well, actually there is. The apostles were witnesses of the > > > >> >>>>>>> resurrected Christ on two separate occasions. > > > >> >>>>>> No evidence backs up your claim. > > > >> >>>>> Well, I could send you a copy of the Bible if you want one. > > > >> >>>> I have a Bible. ?There's no evidence in there to back up your > > > >> >>>> claim. > > > >> >>> John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of > > > >> >>> the > > > >> >>> week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were > > > >> >>> assembled for > > > >> >>> fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith > > > >> >>> unto > > > >> >>> them, Peace be unto you. > > > >> >>> John 21:9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a > > > >> >>> fire of > > > >> >>> coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread. > > > >> >>> 10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now > > > >> >>> caught. > > > >> >>> 11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great > > > >> >>> fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were > > > >> >>> so > > > >> >>> many, yet was not the net broken. > > > >> >>> 12Jesus saith unto them Come and dine, And none of the > > > >> >>> disciples > > > >> >>> durst > > > >> >>> ask him , Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord. > > > >> >>> 13 Jesus then cometh , and taketh bread, and giveth them, and > > > >> >>> fish > > > >> >>> likewise. > > > >> >>> 14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his > > > >> >>> disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. > > > >> >> The Bible still is not evidence. I asked for evidence.- Hide > > > >> >> quoted > > > >> >> text - > > > > >> > The Bible is accepted as evidence in court. > > > > >> For what kinds of cases? > > > > > For all kinds of cases. Clarence Darrow had the Bible entered as > > > > evidence in the monkey trial. > > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > All kinds if cases? > > > You mean, "one type of case"? > > > No, a lawyer can attempt to introduce any physical object as evidence > > in a court case. > > Robert B. Winn > > Relevant evidence > > Al Does the parents have to condescend to their children? ========================================== Is that supposed to be English? Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: rbwinn on 6 Aug 2008 02:19 On Aug 5, 7:29�pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > On Aug 6, 12:05 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 10:38 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > > <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > On Aug 5, 8:52 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 3, 10:54 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > > > > <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 3, 6:16 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Aug 1, 11:57 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > On Aug 1, 8:29 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > > > > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > >>> On Jul 31, 8:56 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > > > > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Why don't we just wait for him before judging them then? > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I happen to think that if anyone needs judging it is the liars and > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> hypocrites. But you don't see me campaigning to remove their human > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> rights. > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Well, yes, I do. Like other atheists you campaign for abortion, > > > > > > > >>>>>>> which removes the right to live of the people who are killed. > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > > > > > > > >>>>>> Please show me evidence that I've campaigned for abortion. Because > > > > > > > >>>>>> that's a flat out lie. And is that your best effort at demonising > > > > > > > >>>>>> atheists? > > > > > > > >>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > >>>>> Atheists have caused more abortions than any other group of people. > > > > > > > >>>> So, you can't show evidence where atheists (like Al) have campaigned for > > > > > > > >>>> abortion. You have lied. > > > > > > > >>>> -- > > > > > > > >>> Josef Stalin was an atheist like Al. While Josef Stalin was dictator > > > > > > > >>> of the Soviet Union, the number of abortions in Russia increased to > > > > > > > >>> about five per woman. > > > > > > > >>> In the People's Republic of China, women who have had one child are > > > > > > > >>> required by the state to abort any children conceived after the first > > > > > > > >>> child is born. > > > > > > > >> So, you have lied. > > > > > > > > > No, I did not lie. > > > > > > > > You said that Al campaigned for abortion. Are you going to provide > > > > > > > evidence for this? > > > > > > > Sure. Ask Al if he is in favor of right to life. > > > > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > > > What does that have to do with whether I've campaigned for legal > > > > > abortions? > > > > > > Al- Hide quoted text - > > > > > Well, I am certainly sorry if I have misjudged you, Al. I think you > > > > are pro-abortion. > > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > That is because you are pidgeon-holing people based on misinformation > > > from your church. > > > I am neither pro- nor anti- abortion. I think it's something for women > > > to decide on. It doesn't directly effect me, and I think it > > > presumptuous for men to have a say. Not an opinion, but a say. > > > > Al- Hide quoted text - > > > So you are pro-abortion. > > Robert B. Winn > > No. �I'm pro letting women make their own minds up. �If asked, I would > warn against it. �But I'm not arrogant enough to tell women what to > do. > Just because you think the state should control women's bodies does > not mean that my position that I (and the state) should have no say in > it, is in any way pro-abortion. > > So you're pro-death then? > > Al- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Pro-life. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 6 Aug 2008 02:21 On Aug 5, 7:32�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Aug 5, 6:31 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Aug 4, 9:22 pm, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > >>>> On Aug 5, 11:08 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>> On Aug 4, 5:34 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 05:02:25 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > >>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > >>>>>> <df36fbb3-4bc6-4217-93a7-eb8537d50...(a)s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>: > >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 8:56?pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 4:29 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 15:24:56 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > >>>>>>>>>> in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 8:12?am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 8:53 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:08:55 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2:30?pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss it with John after the resurrection. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No proof of this alleged "resurrection", is there? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually there is. The apostles were witnesses of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resurrected Christ on two separate occasions. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No evidence backs up your claim. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I could send you a copy of the Bible if you want one. > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a Bible. ?There's no evidence in there to back up your claim. > >>>>>>>>>>> John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the > >>>>>>>>>>> week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for > >>>>>>>>>>> fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto > >>>>>>>>>>> them, Peace be unto you. > >>>>>>>>>>> John 21:9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of > >>>>>>>>>>> coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread. > >>>>>>>>>>> 10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now > >>>>>>>>>>> caught. > >>>>>>>>>>> 11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great > >>>>>>>>>>> fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so > >>>>>>>>>>> many, yet was not the net broken. > >>>>>>>>>>> 12Jesus saith unto them Come and dine, And none of the disciples durst > >>>>>>>>>>> ask him , Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord. > >>>>>>>>>>> 13 Jesus then cometh , and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish > >>>>>>>>>>> likewise. > >>>>>>>>>>> 14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his > >>>>>>>>>>> disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. > >>>>>>>>>> The Bible still is not evidence. I asked for evidence.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> The Bible is accepted as evidence in court. ? > >>>>>>>> For what kinds of cases? > >>>>>>> For any kind of case. A lawyer can request that a Bible be entered as > >>>>>>> evidence in any court case. Clarence Darrow had the Bible entered as > >>>>>>> evidence in the famous "monkey trial". > >>>>>> When did you last check the rules of evidence?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> The last time I was in court. I attempted to introduce the > >>>>> Constitution of the United States as evidence. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>> Yes, the constitution was written in modern time and is not a story. > >>>> The bible was written more than 2000 years ago and was a collection of > >>>> tales meant to con the young into sleep. > >>>> You do not know the significance of a constitution and a fictional > >>>> story book.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> I said I attempted to enter the Constitution as evidence. Judges in > >>> America today do not allow the Constitution in their police state > >>> courts. > >> Just like they do not allow independent voters to run for public office, > >> right? I demolished that claim. Want me to demolish this one? All I > >> need to do is to find ONE case wherein the Constitution was used as > >> evidence. > > >> Want me to do that? > > > You did not demolish anything. �Independent voters are prevented from > > running for office every way party politicians can think of to prevent > > them from running. > > That is just a fact. > > And, as I showed, that's NOT a fact. �It's a downright, bald-faced lie. > � The existence of Bernie Sanders demolishes your claim. > > > As for the other matter, you would have to find a case where a police > > state judge allowed a defendant to refer to the Constitution or > > Constitutional rights. > > Want me to do that? > Bernie Sanders is not an independent voter. He is a political party member just as Joseph Lieberman is a party member. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 6 Aug 2008 02:22 On Aug 5, 7:32�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Aug 5, 6:42 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Aug 4, 9:36 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >>>> On Aug 4, 9:40 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>> On Aug 3, 8:38 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 4:18 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 8:12 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 8:53 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:08:55 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > >>>>>>>>>>>> in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2:30?pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> ... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss it with John after the resurrection. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No proof of this alleged "resurrection", is there? > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually there is. The apostles were witnesses of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> resurrected Christ on two separate occasions. > >>>>>>>>>>>> No evidence backs up your claim. > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, I could send you a copy of the Bible if you want one. > >>>>>>>>>> I have a Bible. There's no evidence in there to back up your claim. > >>>>>>>>> John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the > >>>>>>>>> week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for > >>>>>>>>> fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto > >>>>>>>>> them, Peace be unto you. > >>>>>>>>> John 21:9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of > >>>>>>>>> coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread. > >>>>>>>>> 10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now > >>>>>>>>> caught. > >>>>>>>>> 11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great > >>>>>>>>> fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so > >>>>>>>>> many, yet was not the net broken. > >>>>>>>>> 12Jesus saith unto them Come and dine, And none of the disciples durst > >>>>>>>>> ask him , Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord. > >>>>>>>>> 13 Jesus then cometh , and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish > >>>>>>>>> likewise. > >>>>>>>>> 14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his > >>>>>>>>> disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. > >>>>>>>> No, that's not evidence. That's a claim. > >>>>>>> Well, you have to understand something about rules of evidence. If > >>>>>>> something exists, it can be entered into evidence. The Bible > >>>>>>> exists. > >>>>>> This post exists. This post says that unicorns exist. Therefore, this > >>>>>> post can be entered into evidence and unicorns must exist. Right? > >>>>>> Or is "unicorns exist" just a claim? > >>>>> No, it is evidence that you are not telling the truth. > >>>>>>> So what is your position, that the Bible does not exist, therefore it > >>>>>>> cannot be entered into evidence? > >>>>>>> This is the same tactic you have used from the beginning concerning > >>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel. > >>>>>> Um, no. And you cannot prove that any atheist has ever said anything > >>>>>> about Hezekiah's tunnel not existing, so you might as well give up that > >>>>>> tripe. > >>>>> One atheist a few years back said that Hezekiah's tunnel was a hoax > >>>>> perpetrated by Jerusalem tour guides. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>> And none in this discussion and no citation to back up this claim. > >>>> And yet you ascribe all atheists with the property of denying tunnel > >>>> exists. > >>>> Why is that? Could it be that you're another Liar-for-jesus? > >>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> No, it is just that knowing the way atheists are, > >> You have shown time and again that you have NO knowledge of the way > >> atheists really are. > > >>> if an atheist tells > >>> me that he believes the tunnel exists, I do not believe that atheist > >>> is really conceding its existence, but will continue to say that the > >>> Bible is nothing but mythology even after being shown that it is not. > >> Why? Because the tunnel exists? > > > The tunnel exists. �It is right where the Bible said a tunnel was dug > > as a conduit for water. > > And what does that have to do with anything? > Well, you atheists claimed that the Bible was nothing but mythology. So I have gtiven you a tunnel to consider that you say is mythology. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 6 Aug 2008 02:24
On Aug 5, 7:34�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Aug 5, 6:42 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Aug 4, 9:39 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >>>> On Aug 4, 10:13 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>> On Aug 3, 9:31 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>>>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >>>>>> On Aug 2, 1:07 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Aug 1, 8:14 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>news:f012c137-ec7a-4f41-acf8-81a047bcb82d(a)8g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>> Smiler, > >>>>>>>>> I never go to alt.atheism. > >>>>>>>> Idiot - you are never out of it. > >>>>>>>> Every time you hit that send button with alt.atheism in your headers, you go > >>>>>>>> there. > >>>>>>>> All I am doing is responding to posts in > >>>>>>>>> sci.physics and sci.physics.relativity. > >>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>> And alt.atheism, cretin. > >>>>>>> I don't care what is in the headers. I have already told you how to > >>>>>>> avoid talking to me. Just take sci.physics and sci.physics.relativity > >>>>>>> out of the header. I never go to alt.atheism. > >>>>>>> Robert b. Winn > >>>>>> The issue is really that some of us really object to lies. And when > >>>>>> we see lies, we feel the need to publicly denounce them to the same > >>>>>> audience as they were originally disseminated to. > >>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> If you object to lies, then you should stop posting lies in > >>>>> sci.physics and sci.physics.relativity. Lies are off topic in these > >>>>> newsgroups. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>> I haven't posted any lies. You however, have demonstrably posted many > >>>> lies > >>> It did not happen. I was the person who said that Hezekiah's tunnel > >>> exists, which was demonstrated to be true. > >> And King's Cross Station exists. > > > Does the Bible say that King's Cross Station exists? > > No, because, when the Bible was written, the station was not built yet. > � When the Bible was written, it didn't even REFERENCE the entire > country that would later be known as England. > Well, then you cannot prove the Bible wrong by using King's Cross Station. You would have to use something in the Bible. Robert B. Winn |