Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
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From: Florian Kulzer on 9 May 2010 16:00 On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 09:18:05 -0700, Mike Bird wrote: > On Sun May 9 2010 08:20:40 Florian Kulzer wrote: > (snip) > > That is fine, of course, but why do you bother the list with your > > grievances if your mind is already made up and you are not willing to > > work with the people who care about making KDE4 better? Do you just want > > to use the list as your personal agony aunt? > > This is a Debian list, not a KDE list. That is certainly true, but it seems to me that this argument cuts both ways, and can be applied just as well to the initial complaints. > A lot of people care about > not making Debian worse, and are thereafter taking the time and > making the effort to present the case for not deleting KDE 3.5 > from Debian. Probably true, but I do not see what that has to do with the specific remarks about one particular poster's behavior that you quoted from my last message. (I think it is clear from my complete message that the "you" quoted above is second person singular, not plural.) > While the KDE devs have gone on to new and sillier pastures, KDE 3.5 > is apparently maintained at least by the Trinity project and it is > possible that either Trinity or other solutions may yet be developed > that will avoid the planned harm to Debian. We will see. I have the feeling that the majority of people who cannot stand KDE4 will simply switch to one of the other fine DEs (or to Gnome) in the long run, so it may be difficult to maintain a big enough community of developers and users to keep the KDE3 projects alive. > This is a worthwhile discussion for a Debian list. I never said that it was not. I was expressing my bewilderment with people who seem to get offended when someone offers to submit upstream bugs on their behalf if only they would tell him the details of their problems, just because he may have made a mistake with the CCs. Why not take him up on his offer, you have to do very little, he will do all the work? If that leads to some of your problems with KDE 4 being fixed then you may have one more acceptable alternative available in case the KDE3 zombie turns out to be unmaintainable after all. -- Regards, | Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100509193500.GA5659(a)bavaria.univ-lyon1.fr
From: Lisi on 9 May 2010 17:40 On Sunday 09 May 2010 20:35:00 Florian Kulzer wrote: > I never said that it was not. I was expressing my bewilderment with > people who seem to get offended when someone offers to submit upstream > bugs on their behalf if only they would tell him the details of their > problems, just because he may have made a mistake with the CCs. Why not > take him up on his offer, you have to do very little, he will do all the > work? If that leads to some of your problems with KDE 4 being fixed then > you may have one more acceptable alternative available in case the KDE3 > zombie turns out to be unmaintainable after all. It was the tone of his letters that upset me. I will send you the bits that offended me most off-list. But he _was_ demanding that I should do what from my point of view was considerable work, while claiming that he was helping me. He also refused to accept the reasons I gave as valid. Why do I need to give him any reasons at all for my decisions? > > > That is fine, of course, but why do you bother the list with your > > > grievances if your mind is already made up and you are not willing to > > > work with the people who care about making KDE4 better? Do you just > > > want to use the list as your personal agony aunt? I did not "bother the list with my grievances" nor "use the list as (my) personal agony aunt". I said (and I quote including the text to which I was replying): <quote> > > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 could > > remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. > > No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. I would be. And do we not mean Squeeze? Lenny has KDE 3.5.10. > > I really feel sorry that KDE 3 series is no more being developed, and > > when the day cames that I no longer will be able to use KDE 3, I will > > switch to Apple or even Windows, but NEVER to kde4 or Gnome! > > (and I feel many users out there think like me!!!) > > You still have gnustep, xfce, lxde, no using any or simply never upgrade. I have looked at all those, in addition to KDE 4 and Gnome. None appeals to me. Each has something that I strongly dislike or does not have something that I like and use a lot. I would love to be able to upgrade to Squeeze if new(er) hardware dictates, but keep KDE 3.5. But I am not even almost tempted to go over to the dark side! I am, however, very sad that KDE 3.5, which I regard as the pinnacle of DE's, is being laid to rest. </quote> I see no list of grievances. I said that I am sad that an option I like is no longer available. That is all, and Dotan landed on top of me. I have also said that I do not like various other WMs/DEs. I am not being forced to justify myself for not liking those others. All I did after that was insist that the discussion be carried on on-list, not off. I was clearly wrong to reply to Dotan at all, and I have learnt my lesson. Next time I will simply ignore him! But this time, even ignoring him did not make him go away. Some people on this list have been helpful and made suggestions as to what I might like to try. I am very grateful for it. It is a pity that you and one or two others did not check your facts. It is Dotan's right to work to improve KDE 4 if he so wishes, it is not my duty. Lisi
From: Alan Ianson on 9 May 2010 18:50 On Sun May 9 2010 02:35:02 pm Lisi wrote: > I am, however, very sad that KDE 3.5, which I regard as the pinnacle of > DE's, is being laid to rest. We are in agreement here Lisi. It's not that I don't like kde4 it's just that I'd like to keep what I have since it does just what I want/need it to do and kde4 is such a big change. We I'm running lenny like now I use kde3 and am so very happy with it. When I'm running squeeze or sid I run Gnome. I like Gnome but it's just not the same. I wish I could upgrade to squeeze without losing kde3, or that upgrading to kde4 wasn't such a radical change. I don't know for sure what to to when squeeze is released, I'll probably hang on to lenny for as long as it's feasible. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005091548.06791.agianson(a)gmail.com
From: Dotan Cohen on 10 May 2010 02:20 On 8 May 2010 22:35, consul tores <consultores1(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2010/5/8 Dotan Cohen <dotancohen(a)gmail.com>: >> On 8 May 2010 15:32, consul tores <consultores1(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> the windows are absolutely useless, i can not >>> use many, they have all kind of useless information; > >> What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more specific. > > Who are you figuring out you are, man? > A KDE contributor who is trying to help make KDE suitable for you. If you do not appreciate that then I can just buzz right off, no hard feelings. >>> the menu, needs 3 >>> times more clicks than 3.5; > >> Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Kmenu? > > If this were a kde list, i could take you seriously, but it is not! > The go ahead and post to kde(a)mail.kde.org or debian-kde(a)lists.debian.org, I'm subscribed to both. >>> the time to be ready to use is 5 >>> times than 3.5; > >> Do you mean the load time of the desktop? I do agree that it takes a >> long time (and the starting Akonaki takes even longer!), but I do not >> remember KDE 3 starting so fast either. The new Gnome starts in >> seconds! > > As i said before! This is a Debian list! Wow, sorry for trying to help. >>> In my case, kde 4.x indicate me when is time to change Desktop, i am >>> going to stay with 3.5 still support finish, and then to test others >>> desktops which follow the kiss principle. Jo, Jo, Jo. > >> When you do that, please mail me (privately or on list with CC to me >> privately) to let me know what features other desktops have that you >> like. I'd like to incorporate them into KDE. Thanks. I highly >> recommend testing Gnome Shell, which will be Gnome 3. A lot of people >> are very happy with it. Ion and Enlightenment are popular too, each >> for their own reasons. XFCE and the boxen might be a little lacking if >> you are used to KDE 3. >> >> -- >> Dotan Cohen > > Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your orders? > Orders? I asked what problems you have, so that I can fix them. You don't even have to file a bug, I was willing to do that for you. Go look at the bugs that I've posted in reply to other peoples' issues. Go look at who is filing them. Oh, sorry, you might take that as an order and get offended. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTikbiBu6r8OlMTAZfxtOm3ReVmz_EOudF1LEBcfz(a)mail.gmail.com
From: Dotan Cohen on 10 May 2010 02:30
> :-) Â Well said! Â And is there not a list rule that replies should go only to > the list unless a copy is specifically requested? Â I find having these > commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. Â I > filter for a reason! > Sorry for CCing to you messages that are meant for you, Lisi. If you haven't noticed the mailing list headers are broken and Reply sends messages off list. Therefore I use Reply All and oh nos, you get CCed. I apologize for sending to you "commands" in your personal folder to tell me what is wrong with KDE 4 for you so that I might fix it. Fell free to just plonk me away, I take no offence. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTimvJHYrnGdmXsMPkbLaCbE5sfJQkTEF1BRGtJIb(a)mail.gmail.com |