Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
in [Debian]
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From: Lisi on 9 May 2010 05:30 I seem not to have forwarded this, although I forwarded the others. And Dotan seems to have circulated it, but not to here. So, for completeness in the thread, herewith: ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: Kde 3.5 ... Date: Friday 07 May 2010 From: Dotan Cohen <dotancohen(a)gmail.com> To: Lisi <lisi.reisz(a)gmail.com>, debian-kde(a)lists.debian.org On 7 May 2010 19:54, Lisi <lisi.reisz(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> That boils down to "it's on by default". Just go turn them off. > > But I have to _look_ at them to turn them off. In KDE 3 I do not. I can turn > them off without ever having to see them. > Yes, you do have to look at them once. >> And > >> the defaults do not have wobbly windows, wavy effects, or anything > >> shimmering. Nothing spins either, but the Alt-tab dialogue does slide. > >> There is plenty of transparency, though, and I hate that too. So I > >> turn it off. > >> > >> My mother suffers from what she calls "vertigo" and the effects do not > >> upset her. Nor do they upset the autistics that I volunteer with. They > >> are merely an annoyance to those annoyed by them, nothing wild. > > Bully for your mother and your autistics. They make me feel sick and trigger > a bad headache. > The effects do make you feel sick? The only effects you will see to get to the System Settings is the transparency. I have a lot of experience in environmentally-induced reactions (my mother, autistics, and by the way I am a trained medic though I currently do not work in the field), and I simply do not believe that transparency will cause a reaction. Nothing flashes or spins, which are the two established and recognized visual triggers. >> It works that way in KDE 4 as well, so long as you have opened them > >> from Krunner in the past. That is how I open all my applications. > > They do not. They are much more complicated than in KDE 3 and you have to > type more to be offered anything. > You are right, you must type the first three letters in KDE 4. >> > 4. Alt+F1 does not bring up the menu. > >> > >> It's Alt-F5 for the Kmenu. Has been since KDE 3 I think. > > No, it's alt+F1 in KDE 3.5.x. Alt+F5, which I also like and use a lot, > brings up a list of running windows. > Thanks, I'm a good year removed from KDE 3. In any case, you can set Alt-F1 as the Kmenu shortcut. >> > 5. Kcontrol no longer exists. > >> > >> It's called System Settings, and with the Tree menu it's very similar. > >> It is being reworked for KDE 4.5, so if you have any suggestions then > >> now is the time to make them! > > But I don't _like_ KDE 4 and I do, very much, like KDE 3. I like Kcontrol > better than those work-arounds. > That's why I'm here. I'm not trying to push you into using KDE 4. I'm trying to learn what you dislike about KDE 4 so that I can file issues and get things fixed. But I won't do that on trivial things, such as non-essential default settings. >> > etc etc. > >> > >> Tell me more! > > Why? You will only tell me that I have not got your petrmission to > dislike/miss whatever it is. > No, if you tell me about usability issues, regressions, or just plain bugs in KDE 4 I will work to resolve them. I have filed or triages over 1300 bugs in KDE, most for users and not for myself. > I have not evaded the question. I have pointed out that I prefer things that > are functional to things that are showy. You did not point out what is not functional. I am here to fix KDE 4. I am not here for philosophy. > As I stated at the beginning. As > someone else has pointed out, KDE 4 has had 2 years to become half way > bearable and has signally failed. I mourn the passing of KDE 3.5.x, which I > regard as the pinnacle of DE's. In other words, we have come full circle and > are back at the beginning. You have to learn to accept that not everyone > agrees with you. > I don't want you to agree with me. I want you to point out the problems so that I can fix them. > And, I fear that the lengths you are going to to try and persuade me that I > am wrong, even to the extent of telling me that I am only allowed to be made > ill by something that also makes your mother ill, do not strike me as > helping me. > I am not trying to persuade you to do anything other than share your KDE problems with me, so that I might get them resolved. KDE 3 holdouts are holding out because they are sensitive to the little usability issues that make a great desktop environment. I need that input so that I might get KDE 4 as great as KDE 3. I want to know what is not intuitive, and what doesn't work. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com ------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005091021.21748.lisi.reisz(a)gmail.com
From: Sjoerd Hardeman on 9 May 2010 09:30 Op 08-05-10 23:42, Lisi schreef: > On Saturday 08 May 2010 20:35:47 consul tores wrote: >>> Dotan Cohen >> >> Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your >> orders? > > :-) Well said! And is there not a list rule that replies should go only to > the list unless a copy is specifically requested? I find having these > commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. I > filter for a reason! It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem. Please, folks, manners! Sjoerd
From: steef on 9 May 2010 10:00 Dotan Cohen schreef: >> No - that is the problem!! I loved KDE 3.5.x and have become quite slick with >> it. KDE 4 is different. I don't like it. If I have to, in effect, change >> DE, and go through the learning curve again, there is no reason why it would >> have to be to KDE 4. >> > This is a very valid point that seems to be lost on some devs. Other > than the logo, not much is the same between KDE 3 and 4. I will > contend that moving to KDE 4 would be no different that moving to any > other DE. You will notice that I've never pressured you to move to KDE > 4, I have only pressured you to tell me what is problematic in KDE 4. > I do that for the simple reason that I help improve KDE 4, and to > bring it up to par with KDE 3. I do not think that any other desktop > has the ambition to be what KDE 3 was. > > > >> When the time comes that I cannot sensibly go on using >> KDE 3, I shall chose where I go next on the basis of what the options are >> looking like at the time. >> > That is wise, and you might enjoy Gnome Shell, that will become Gnome > 3. It is very different from KDE 3, but a lot of people really love > it. > > > >> I can see little liklihood that that choice will >> be KDE 4. I may even switch to a window manager without a DE, and chose >> other ways of working, if that is the only way that I can avoid the glitz >> that is now all the rage. >> >> > You will have to better define "glitz". Assuming that you mean > composting, then if your intention is to avoid the glitz, you can do > that in KDE 4. In fact, I think that even XFCE comes with composting > support and integration. > > > >> How things look is very important to me. I have problems with my eyes, and >> how a thing looks can influence whether I can work on a thing for one minute, >> ten minutes or an hour. >> >> > Then you will have to adjust the default settings of any DE, KDE is > not exception here. > > > >> I have no problem with other people liking and wanting to use KDE 4. I have a >> problem with their, in some cases, not allowing me the freedom _not_ to use >> it. And I personally shall mourn the passing of KDE 3. >> >> > Like I said, I am not pressuring you to use KDE 4. I just want to know > what doesn't work for you. And now I know, or I think that I do: you > don't like composting. Would you like me to send to you a KDE config > with composting disabled, that you can enable via CLI before logging > in the first time? > > > where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit> copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough? regards, steef -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4BE6BAB0.9070000(a)home.nl
From: Lisi on 9 May 2010 10:10 On Sunday 09 May 2010 14:18:27 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote: > Op 08-05-10 23:42, Lisi schreef: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > On Saturday 08 May 2010 20:35:47 consul tores wrote: > >>> Dotan Cohen > >> > >> Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your > >> orders? > >> > > :-) Well said! And is there not a list rule that replies should go only > > : to > > > > the list unless a copy is specifically requested? > > I find having these > > commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. > > I filter for a reason! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In > this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem. I do *not* ask otherwise and Dotan has been sending long, rude, unpleasant emails direct to me. That is what I am complaining about. As I said above, *I* have been getting them from Dotan, as you correctly state: "*Lisi* shreef ..... *I* have been getting them." According to list policy I should not be getting them. In addition, the last one was sent to the KDE list (to which I do not subscribe) and not to this, which is the list with the thread. Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last one) before complaining about my complaint. And my crime?? For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me? I use KDE 3, but do not intend to use KDE 4. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005091500.32195.lisi.reisz(a)gmail.com
From: Sjoerd Hardeman on 9 May 2010 10:40
Op 09-05-10 16:00, Lisi schreef: >> It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In >> this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem. > > I do *not* ask otherwise and Dotan has been sending long, rude, unpleasant > emails direct to me. That is what I am complaining about. As I said above, > *I* have been getting them from Dotan, as you correctly state: "*Lisi* > shreef ..... *I* have been getting them." According to list policy I should > not be getting them. In addition, the last one was sent to the KDE list (to > which I do not subscribe) and not to this, which is the list with the thread. There you have a point. > > Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last > one) before complaining about my complaint. Well, that's kind of hard since they are sent to you. Unless you want me to hack your mailbox ;) > > And my crime?? For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to > the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me? I use KDE 3, but do not > intend to use KDE 4. As far as I have seen the mails of Dotan on this list (the one I'm following), he is currently collecting issues with KDE4 and filing the to the devs. That in principle is something good, I suppose. What I have seen is that Dotan might be a bit persistent in getting the bugs of of you and others. What I have seen from you is that you also weren't completely friendly all the time. That's why I thought that a 'manners' mail would be appropriate. I am not going to judge who has begun and who is to blame. I'm just observing that a valid discussion (what's different in KDE4 and how can it be improved) is getting out of hand. And it's also up to you to fix that. Anyway, what's the crime of using KDE3.5? Nothing, except that it's not supported anymore. Sjoerd |