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From: dorayme on 19 Nov 2009 02:50 In article <dfmanno-123EF3.00043719112009(a)news.albasani.net>, "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno(a)mail.com> wrote: > In article <doraymeRidThis-40CDAB.12015419112009(a)news.albasani.net>, > dorayme <doraymeRidThis(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > AV3 <arvimide(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > > > > > Coffee is supposed to be sold at a drinkable temperature > > > > You just make things up as they suit you. It is not *supposed* to be > > this at all for reasons I have given. > > So if you come into my establishment for a cup of coffee and I sell you > coffee at 212 degrees, that's OK? After all, coffee is not *supposed* to > be sold at a drinkable temperature. You missed my argument before. I will cut you some slack and repeat the theme. If you served it at near boiling, that is absolutely correct for everyone. There is no other *best temperature* but the very highest (that will not burn someone if it remains in the vessel in which it is served and picked up by the recipient and that does spoil the coffee). From that point on, everyone is a winner. People like me (boulderstone-crushing types) will sip a teensy bit and take pleasure and then wait a while, talking at length in the meantime, till it suits to take another sip and then, when cooler, to take bigger sips. Heaven! Coffee and the sound of my own voice. Are you seriously suggesting that any society could be good if it did not provide for this? Weaker individuals will need to wait a while and be patient. But they get their reward. And note how this accommodates every possible desired temperature and so every possible taste as long as reasonable behaviour is present. Compare the nice world I paint above with yours where everyone else is held responsible for everything that goes wrong with you. The coffee is served sort of pathetic and soon will go cold. If you add milk to it or get delayed or want to drink it when you walk to somewhere where you like to sit and chat or read, it might easily be too cold for *many* people. You paint a world for the average idiot, the lowest common denominator, almost for the fool. It is very sad and your coffee policy will keep only this denominator happy. Mob rule in effect. You make the mob happy while inconveniencing everyone else. There *are* people outside common mobs you know. Or perhaps you don't know? -- dorayme
From: Kurt Ullman on 19 Nov 2009 06:38 In article <he2k3t$e2t$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Wes Groleau <Groleau+news(a)FreeShell.org> wrote: > D.F. Manno wrote: > > Well, how about this: she suffered third-degree burns and required skin > > grafts. > > Does it actually say that in the transcripts? > > In every medical or first aid class or book I've seen, > part of the definition of "third degree burn" includes > charred flesh. Coffee is mostly water, thus if not under > pressure, CANNOT be higher than 100 degrees Celsius, and > cannot char flesh. Burns are characterized by depth of the burn and can be without char. -- To find that place where the rats don't race and the phones don't ring at all. If once, you've slept on an island. Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"
From: AV3 on 19 Nov 2009 10:41 Nick Naym wrote: > In article he1tp4$8dl$1(a)news.albasani.net, AV3 at arvimide(a)earthlink.net > wrote on 11/18/09 5:51 PM: > >> Nick Naym wrote: >>> In article 171120091055449487%nospam(a)nospam.invalid, nospam at >>> nospam(a)nospam.invalid wrote on 11/17/09 11:55 AM: >>> >>>> In article <rowbotth-86259F.09422717112009(a)news.newsgroupdirect.com>, >>>> Rowbotth <rowbotth(a)telusplanet.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> ... > > So, McD's should be held responsible for a mishap due to her poor judgment > because she was "apparently too old to have or notice beverage holders in > her car"? > > I know that society doesn't hold children or the mentally incompetent to the > same legal standards as "normal" folks -- they often are forgiven for > transgressions due to their lack/lapse of good judgment. But shall we now > not only forgive them for their poor judgment, but reward them for it as > well? And do we not actually encourage irresponsible behavior by not just > rewarding them for poor judgment, but by passing on the responsibility -- > and penalty -- for it to others? > > > >> But she spilled it in an act of simple carelessness. > > Yes..._her_ carelessness, not McD's. > > >> It was appreciably >> hotter than coffee from other such establishments and burned her badly. > > I have a lot of empathy for victims of _any_ accident. But to somehow > suggest that McD's was responsible for _her_ accident by introducing the > temperature of the coffee -- a totally irrelevant and highly arguable > allegation vis-à-vis the accident itself -- is fallacious (a "red herring"). They weren't held responsible for her accident but for the damage caused by their excessively hot coffee, causing the seriousness of what would otherwise have been negligible soiling and mild burning. > >> MacDonald's had ignored numerous previous complaints and finally got >> nailed for recalcitrant neglect, as they should have. I don't think it >> unreasonable to take into account that coffee served in styrofoam gets >> spilled pretty often. > > Were hot coffee served in styrofoam cups been so widely problematic, folks > would've stopped buying it; McD's and every other fast-food/take-out joint > would've either changed the product or stopped offering it. > Part of MacD's irresponsible behavior was to ignore numerous complaints about the excessive temperature their coffee was served at. This was a matter of record and part of the evidence against MacD, and they were held liable for it. Justly, I think. > >> As pointed out elsewhere, > > Where might that have been? > >> knives are supposed to be sharp, and care is >> required, especially if they are advertised for their sharpness. Coffee >> is supposed to be sold at a drinkable temperature, and overheating it >> was a peculiar, unadvertised practice of MacDonald's. > > How sharp is too sharp, and how hot is too hot? And how is either related to > any injuries I might suffer due to my irresponsible handling of knives or > coffee? And how does my disregard of the knives' sharpness or coffee's > temperature while handling those products get transferred to the > manufacturer or restaurant? > All sharp knives are dangerous, and their manufacturers are not liable for damage from careless handling. Coffee served at restaurants other than MacDonald's is not prone to cause serious burns. MacD was held liable for escessively hot and dangerous coffee and for ignoring complaints about it. Spilling coffee out of a styrofoam cup is commonplace and not analogous to cutting yourself while using a knife. > >> ... >> > -- ++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++ ||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ(a)Wearthlink.net> || ||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ(a)Wearthlink.net> || ||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ || || Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso || ++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
From: Mike Rosenberg on 19 Nov 2009 10:49 AV3 <arvimide(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > All sharp knives are dangerous, and their manufacturers are not liable > for damage from careless handling. Coffee served at restaurants other > than MacDonald's is not prone to cause serious burns. MacD was held > liable for escessively hot and dangerous coffee and for ignoring > complaints about it. Spilling coffee out of a styrofoam cup is > commonplace and not analogous to cutting yourself while using a knife. There was also the issue of the lid design - McD's lids were harder to open without spilling coffee than other lids were. Meanwhile, one topic that hasn't been brought up is that of proportional liability, and that's something that is always taken into consideration in such cases. -- My latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvB98fgse-s> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi>
From: nospam on 19 Nov 2009 19:19
In article <hdvim5$bdt$4(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Wes Groleau <Groleau+news(a)FreeShell.org> wrote: > nospam wrote: > > mcdonalds testified that they serve food that can cause serious injury. > > that's illegal. > > quibble: Not illegal, but apparently irresponsible. it is illegal. |