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From: nospam on 8 Aug 2010 14:46 In article <v9ut569kkb5soa46241rg2t2jrrehdjcs7(a)4ax.com>, John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > >Don't be absurd. There are _ substantive differences_ between Android > >models. > > Just as there are between iPhone models. Is each iPhone in a separate > class in your opinion? :) there's only one iphone model, with different amounts of storage.
From: ZnU on 8 Aug 2010 14:51 In article <ltot569iv0ou37h6ncb828p5bjb84fehj3(a)4ax.com>, John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 12:22:42 -0400, in > <znu-979B83.12224208082010(a)Port80.Individual.NET>, ZnU > <znu(a)fake.invalid> wrote: > > >In article <0okt5612iuuo278292n1gps0hgkrm15530(a)4ax.com>, > > John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > > >> Pretty much all Android handsets to date are in the same class as the > >> iPhone. We'll probably see a lot of lower class Android handsets in the > >> future, but not thus far. > > > >This is simply not true. There are Android phones on the market with > >screen resolutions as low as 240x320. There are Android phones with > >slower processors, less internal storage (they practically all have less > >internal storage), user interfaces bastardized by clueless hardware > >companies, accelerometers that don't really work, unremovable apps > >bundled or features disabled by clueless carriers, old versions of the > >operating system, etc. > > Your personal belief and quibbles notwithstanding, they are perceived by > the industry and by consumers as being in the same class. Heh. I'm citing actual substantive differences, and you're accusing me of pushing "personal belief and quibbles". Meanwhile, you're claiming the industry and consumers apparently consider _all_ Android phones to be in the same class as the iPhone, and offering no evidence of that at all. To the extent that the tech-savvy consider them equivalent, I think it actually has a lot to do with the fact that most of the focus is on a couple of the best Android handsets. > >All of this stuff tends to get ignored when people are comparing Android > >phones to the iPhone -- they compare the best Android phones, not the > >Android phones the masses are necessarily using. > > Which ones (by name) are those? (I've asked you this before.) > What I've seen are comparisons of the biggest selling Android phones. > Moto Droid, for example, is a huge hit on Verizon. Look at Verizon's current lineup. You don't think there are probably a _lot_ of people buying the LG Ally, which is $50 and currently has a 2-for-1 offer, rather than the Droid X, which is $199 -- 8x the price if you want two? > >And even then, it's quite common, when someone points out some issue > >with one of those better Android phones, to just say "Well, then buy > >another Android phone". But of course that doesn't usually help -- the > >other Android phone you pick will just have some other issue. "Choice" > >isn't a substitute for quality. > > Quality is as good or better than Apple, and the advice is sound, > because there are in fact substantial differences between different > Android phones, as you yourself have admitted, plus things like physical > keyboards. You're missing the point. In order for an Android phone to be a better choice than an iPhone for a given user, there must be a _single specific_ Android phone that is a better choice than an iPhone for that user. This game of "Well, if you don't like X about Phone 1, buy Phone 2 instead" is useless if Phone 2 has issue Y which is just as bad as issue X. And in the real world, that's very often the case. [snip] -- "The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes
From: ZnU on 8 Aug 2010 14:52 In article <dunt56pr5g0psrni122fd04qnro35d6p2s(a)4ax.com>, John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 12:29:05 -0400, in > <znu-639EE4.12290408082010(a)Port80.Individual.NET>, ZnU > <znu(a)fake.invalid> wrote: > > >In article <rtit56t3l063ds16d17bdatpag6m7fdg5g(a)4ax.com>, > > John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > > >> I can't imagine how. Perhaps I'm missing your point. An Apple > >> problem affects the entire population of phones, whereas a given > >> Android handset problem doesn't affect all the other Android > >> handsets. Advantage Android, a matter of the open business model, > >> not fairness. > > > >The odds of any _specific_ model of Android phone having an issue are no > >lower than the odds of a given year's iPhone having an issue. > > I see no basis for that claim. Perhaps you're confusing Android, made > by Google, with Android hardware, make by experienced hardware players. I'm talking about actual Android phones, which include both hardware and software components. > Apple has come up to speed remarkably well, but its mistakes are > evidence of how new it is to the party as compared to much more > experienced players like Nokia and Motorola. Google likewise, as > evidenced by Nexus One. Um... if you compare the iPhone to specific models of Android phone or even to, say, all the Android phones sold by Motorola, Apple is trouncing those "more experienced players". > If your priority is great radio performance, go Nokia or Motorola. If > your priority is style, go Apple. If your priority is software, go > Google. > > >From the perspective of an _individual user_ this is all that > >matters. The fact that more people will have the same issue with the > >iPhone vs. on average the same number of people having assorted > >_different_ issues with Android phones results in Apple getting more > >negative PR but doesn't actually indicate there are more users with > >issue. That was my point. > > Since _all_ iPhone users tend to be impacted by any iPhone hardware > issue, whereas a given Android hardware issue won't affect the > majority of Android users, greater publicity is both understandable > and meaningful. What you can't seem to grasp is that more models doesn't mean the same number of discrete issues, with each issue impacting fewer users. All else being equal, more models also means _more discrete issues_ with each issue impacting fewer users. The odds of a specific user having _some_ issue remain the same. -- "The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes
From: ZnU on 8 Aug 2010 14:58 In article <5jnt569bq08ae2pu55k07401lkeifop6s5(a)4ax.com>, John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 12:37:20 -0400, in > <znu-E6AA49.12372008082010(a)Port80.Individual.NET>, ZnU > <znu(a)fake.invalid> wrote: > > >In article <sgkt569kivh80jiji4hm81iassi99cktn6(a)4ax.com>, > > John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > > >> Nothing wrong with that -- Android is getting the best of both > >> worlds. > > > >See next response. > > > >> >You don't need a Mac to write Android apps, and they're written > >> >in Java, which is a more widely used language than Obj-C. > >> > >> Benefits of the Android model. > > > >Not if it results in junky hobbyware crowding higher quality apps > >out, it's not. > > I see no evidence of that, and don't think it likely. > > >> Available evidence suggests otherwise; e.g., > >> <http://www.gomonews.com/android-go-boom-mobile-analytics-points-to > >> -explosi on- of-development/> > > > >The data is from last October, which was still early days. It's easy > >to have huge relative growth that early in the game, because the > >baseline is so low. > > There's ample evidence of continued rapid growth (but since you're > probably just going to reject them, I'm not going to waste time on > more citations). > > >See also: > >http://blog.flurry.com/bid/31825/iPad-Developer-Support-Continues-to- > >Soar > > > >Android project starts are still growing, but iOS project starts are > >growing even faster, thanks in part to iPad. (RIM just appears > >totally screwed in making the transition from e-mail appliances to > >real smartphones.) > > Flurry data is biased toward Apple. Got anything more objective? Your original link cited Flurry data, but as soon as I use it it's "biased toward Apple". Hilarious. -- "The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes
From: Jeff Liebermann on 8 Aug 2010 15:13
On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 10:28:16 -0700, John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: >On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 10:07:26 -0700, in ><0vnt569ooulbctshsd5rvjn1177ukrcapb(a)4ax.com>, Jeff Liebermann ><jeffl(a)cruzio.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:15:44 -0400, ZnU <znu(a)fake.invalid> wrote: > >>>This is >>>actually _worse_ for consumers, yet it makes Android look better. >> >>Consumers don't want to hear about problems. Just watch what happens >>when a company issues a safety recall on a product. 20 years ago, it >>would produce a major drop in sales. These days, it does nothing. > >Worse, the majority of consumers don't even bother to take advantage of >recalls they hear about, even when important, and even when notified >directly. (I say this based on considerable real recall data.) Ummm.... we won't mention my driving around in a car with about 4 recall notices that I haven't acted upon. Do like I say, not like I do. >>There's another factor at work here. Fear of screwing up. Everyone >>"knows" that the iPhone will do everything, because of the 4 year >>track record. If not, there's an app for it somewhere. The GUM >>(great unwashed masses) are not so sure if the various Android phones >>can do the same. FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) at work in the Android >>market. > >I don't think that's much of a factor, if at all. I beg to differ. In discussions with my assorted customers and friends, the issue of "will Android be adequate" keeps coming up. They want to be assured that one can do everything that can be done on an iPhone. Most are current Windoze Mobile, Blackberry or feature phone users, that are disappointed with their current device. >What seems to be much >more important is (a) cachet and (b) recommendations from friends. FWIW, >pretty much everyone who's talked to me about getting an iPhone in the >past several months has said something like, "My friends tell me I >should get an iPhone!" Naw... they pump me for all the info they can squeeze out of me, and then buy whatever they find interesting. One prospective buyer seems to be most interested in which phone plays the best Tetris game. I beg them to talk to me before buying, but that never seems to happen. When I dig deeper, I find that the 16 year old grand brat had more influence than my detailed research. A common question is "What's everyone else buying"? which hints at some kind of herd instinct. Worst case is where I bought a friend an iPhone 3G, setup as a PDA (no cellular service) about 3 months ago. Now, he wants an iPhone 4 and won't even look at an Android phone even though he currently has VZW service. His line is something like "I want the real thing". I suspect that Apple is putting some kind of addictive volatile chemical in their iPhones. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |