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From: Jeff Liebermann on 8 Aug 2010 13:07
On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:15:44 -0400, ZnU <znu(a)fake.invalid> wrote:

>But this is precisely my point. Having more models doesn't actually mean
>the phone an individual user buys is less likely to have an issue.

Actually, it does. If all the Android phones were released
simultaneously, it's conceivable that they may all have some common
problem overlooked during the development. However, with the current
staggered release of various models by various vendors, each
succeeding model builds upon the lessons learned by the competitors.
This is the way to make incremental improvements, which are certainly
beneficial to the customer.

>It
>just means consumers less likely to _hear_ about issues.

Judging by the iPhone 4 sales, consumers may be listening, but they
don't seem to care and buy the phone anyway. I guess the US buying
public has been successfully educated in accepting defects. Polling a
few friends that have iPhone 4's, the consensus seems to be that
whatever problems arrise, they're minor and Apple will fix it.

>This is
>actually _worse_ for consumers, yet it makes Android look better.

Consumers don't want to hear about problems. Just watch what happens
when a company issues a safety recall on a product. 20 years ago, it
would produce a major drop in sales. These days, it does nothing.

>And I think there's even an additional factor at work. There are a lot
>of people who _love_ to hate Apple.

Of course. Everyone is jealous of a winner. Nothing we do will ever
change that.

>There are also lots of clueless
>Apple fans who demand entirely unreasonable things from Apple and get
>pissed off when they don't get them. (See any Mac web forum on the day of
>a major Apple announcement.)

Sure, but the fanatics are also the early adopters and first to buy
anything new. I keep waiting for a iPod Touch with a GPS, camera, and
built in microphone. Yawn...

>And the iPhone still has substantially
>better brand recognition than Android.

Yep, but as I previously suggested, the real brand loyalty is to the
cellular vendor (AT&T or Verizon) as enforced by a 2 year contract. If
Verizon magically appears with a CDMA iPhone tomorrow, how many
current AT&T customers, with iPhone are going to pay $325 early
termination fee to jump ship?

There's another factor at work here. Fear of screwing up. Everyone
"knows" that the iPhone will do everything, because of the 4 year
track record. If not, there's an app for it somewhere. The GUM
(great unwashed masses) are not so sure if the various Android phones
can do the same. FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) at work in the Android
market.

>Put these together with the
>tendency for sensationalist Internet 'journalism', you have a recipe for
>a firestorm -- in a way you just don't with Android devices.

I don't see it. There aren't enough Apple haters, clueless Apple
fans, and brand loyal fanatics to make much of a difference.

Incidentally, when Apple finally gets the color matching correct, and
the white iPhone 4 is released, don't forget to count it as a seperate
product, like the various Android phones.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
From: nospam on 8 Aug 2010 13:12
In article <dunt56pr5g0psrni122fd04qnro35d6p2s(a)4ax.com>, John Navas
<spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote:

> If your priority is great radio performance, go Nokia or Motorola.

if you don't mind assorted other problems. historically, motorola has
had an *awful* user interface and nokia mixed. now that they have
android, their ui fuckups are not a factor.

> If your priority is style, go Apple.
> If your priority is software, go Google.

wrong. apple ios is better designed than android and easier to develop
for (and i've worked with both) resulting in a far wider and richer
selection of apps.

> >From the
> >perspective of an _individual user_ this is all that matters. The fact
> >that more people will have the same issue with the iPhone vs. on average
> >the same number of people having assorted _different_ issues with
> >Android phones results in Apple getting more negative PR but doesn't
> >actually indicate there are more users with issue. That was my point.
>
> Since _all_ iPhone users tend to be impacted by any iPhone hardware
> issue, whereas a given Android hardware issue won't affect the majority
> of Android users, greater publicity is both understandable and
> meaningful.

except all iphone users are *not* impacted by antennagate. some can't
duplicate it no matter how hard they try. others can. despite this so
called problem, the phone is still selling like crazy.
From: John Navas on 8 Aug 2010 13:15
On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 12:22:42 -0400, in
<znu-979B83.12224208082010(a)Port80.Individual.NET>, ZnU
<znu(a)fake.invalid> wrote:

>In article <0okt5612iuuo278292n1gps0hgkrm15530(a)4ax.com>,
> John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote:

>> Pretty much all Android handsets to date are in the same class as the
>> iPhone. We'll probably see a lot of lower class Android handsets in the
>> future, but not thus far.
>
>This is simply not true. There are Android phones on the market with
>screen resolutions as low as 240x320. There are Android phones with
>slower processors, less internal storage (they practically all have less
>internal storage), user interfaces bastardized by clueless hardware
>companies, accelerometers that don't really work, unremovable apps
>bundled or features disabled by clueless carriers, old versions of the
>operating system, etc.

Your personal belief and quibbles notwithstanding, they are perceived by
the industry and by consumers as being in the same class.

>All of this stuff tends to get ignored when people are comparing Android
>phones to the iPhone -- they compare the best Android phones, not the
>Android phones the masses are necessarily using.

Which ones (by name) are those? (I've asked you this before.)
What I've seen are comparisons of the biggest selling Android phones.
Moto Droid, for example, is a huge hit on Verizon.

>And even then, it's quite common, when someone points out some issue
>with one of those better Android phones, to just say "Well, then buy
>another Android phone". But of course that doesn't usually help -- the
>other Android phone you pick will just have some other issue. "Choice"
>isn't a substitute for quality.

Quality is as good or better than Apple, and the advice is sound,
because there are in fact substantial differences between different
Android phones, as you yourself have admitted, plus things like physical
keyboards.

>> >Even if that's true, a) the blind Apple loyalists also attack Apple (see
>> >above) and b) the blind loyalists also visit web sites with negative
>> >coverage (half the fun of being a blind loyalist is presumably being
>> >able to get nice and outraged occasionally, I'd think), which encourages
>> >web sites to stir up this sort of controversy.
>>
>> I think that's a big stretch. ;)
>
>I think it's blatantly obvious.

Why am I not surprised. ;)

--
John

"Facts? We ain't got no facts. We don't need no facts. I don't have
to show you any stinking facts!" [with apologies to John Huston]
From: nospam on 8 Aug 2010 13:17
In article <0vnt569ooulbctshsd5rvjn1177ukrcapb(a)4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl(a)cruzio.com> wrote:

> Yep, but as I previously suggested, the real brand loyalty is to the
> cellular vendor (AT&T or Verizon) as enforced by a 2 year contract. If
> Verizon magically appears with a CDMA iPhone tomorrow, how many
> current AT&T customers, with iPhone are going to pay $325 early
> termination fee to jump ship?

the reports i've seen say a substantial number will leave at&t when
there are alternative carriers for the iphone, especially those who
aren't subject to the new higher early termination fee (i.e., most,
since it was raised just a few months ago).
From: nospam on 8 Aug 2010 13:20
In article <ltot569iv0ou37h6ncb828p5bjb84fehj3(a)4ax.com>, John Navas
<spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote:

> >> Pretty much all Android handsets to date are in the same class as the
> >> iPhone. We'll probably see a lot of lower class Android handsets in the
> >> future, but not thus far.
> >
> >This is simply not true. There are Android phones on the market with
> >screen resolutions as low as 240x320. There are Android phones with
> >slower processors, less internal storage (they practically all have less
> >internal storage), user interfaces bastardized by clueless hardware
> >companies, accelerometers that don't really work, unremovable apps
> >bundled or features disabled by clueless carriers, old versions of the
> >operating system, etc.
>
> Your personal belief and quibbles notwithstanding, they are perceived by
> the industry and by consumers as being in the same class.

except, they're not the same class. not being able to see a phone
outdoors is pretty bad. not being able to upgrade to 2.2 when the phone
was bought just a few months ago is even worse.

> >And even then, it's quite common, when someone points out some issue
> >with one of those better Android phones, to just say "Well, then buy
> >another Android phone". But of course that doesn't usually help -- the
> >other Android phone you pick will just have some other issue. "Choice"
> >isn't a substitute for quality.
>
> Quality is as good or better than Apple,

anything to back that up? didn't think so.

> and the advice is sound,
> because there are in fact substantial differences between different
> Android phones, as you yourself have admitted, plus things like physical
> keyboards.

the physical keyboard in some cases sucks (droid) or does not exist on
other android phones.
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