OE Is Deleting My NG Headers
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From: NormanM on 30 Jan 2009 12:05 On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:53:22 -0000, D. Spencer Hines wrote: > Keep Outlook Express... > > Lean & Mean. Extremely delicate. Subject to corruption if not handled carefully. -- Norman ~Oh Lord, why have you come ~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
From: VanguardLH on 30 Jan 2009 12:53 Neil wrote: > "VanguardLH" <V(a)nguard.LH> wrote in message > news:glu9j6$ph5$1(a)news.motzarella.org... >> Bruce Hagen wrote: >> >>> News servers only keep posts for a period of time. Each server is >>> different. >>> MSNews keeps them for 90 days. Some servers keep them longer, some only >>> for >>> a few days. >>> >>> If you want to keep posts indefinitely, copy them to an OE local folder. >>> >>> Also, make sure that in View | Current View, you have Show All Messages >>> and >>> Group messages By Conversation checked and nothing else. >> >> The reason regarding Bruce's reply is that OE remains in sync with the >> NNTP server. If the NNTP server expires and drops a post then so, too, >> will OE. You need to move items out of the newsgroups folder in OE if >> you don't want them to get synchronized (i.e., deleted in OE after the >> NNTP server deleted them). > > Again, I have my synchronization settings set to "No synchronization." And I > remember my headers used to stay indefinitely. Once a header was downloaded, > it would just stay in the folder. If I hadn't gotten the body of a message, > and it scrolled off the server, then, yeah, it was too late (and when I > tried to get that expired text, OE would show the header in strikethrough > text; but the header would still be there). > > So what's the point of having a synchronization setting of "no > synchronization" if OE is going to synchronize anyway? Doesn't make sense. > And, like I said, didn't used to be that way. I remember a point where OE > would keep downloaded headers indefinitely. > > Also, what's the point of having a "Delete news messages X days after being > downloaded" if OE is just going to delete them anyway, regardless of the > setting. Again, doesn't make sense. The "synchronization" you mention only relates to reading posts while OE is offline. It determines if OE is going to retrieve nothing new, just headers for new posts, or the headers and bodies of new posts. You can then put OE offline to read them (or read them while you are disconnected from the network). That is NOT the synchronization that I spoke of which is OE keeping in sync with what posts are currently available on the server. If OE gets out of sync, you will see articles listed in OE but when you try to read them you get "message no longer available on server" error. That is because the server expired the article and removed it. There is an overview headers database that gets updated at intervals, like maybe just once per day, but the article expire during the day. That means the overview database and the article database can get out of sync. You end up with "bad article number" errors when your newsreader tries retrieve an article that was found in the overview database (when you retrieved just headers) but the article no longer exists in the article database. When the overview database gets updated then it is in sync with the article database. That's another type of synchronization problem. When an article is removed from the server, and after the overview database gets updated to get in sync with the articles, then OE uses the overview headers to figure out when an article is no longer available on the server, and then OE syncs itself. That's the sync that I was talking about. The sync you were talking about has nothing to do with staying in sync with the server. It has to do with reading articles while offline. "Synchronization" covers many different types of synchronization. Maybe "cache headers or articles or both for offline reading" would have been a better description albeit much longer description for the "Synchronization" option in OE. Many users had or still have to pay by the minute of connect time on a dial-up connection. They don't want to waste time wandering around dozens of newsgroups hunting down the articles they want to read and then retrieving them and then disconnect to reduce their cost (which is the minutes deducted from their monthly quota). Instead then have OE retrieve all headers and bodies for all posts in all the newsgroups they visit (or maybe use rules to find just particular posts). It often takes less time to do that so less minutes are deducted from the user's connect time quota. Regardless of your "synchronization" settings in OE (which have to do with retrieving the headers and bodies so they are available even when offline), OE will synchronize what articles it keeps with those that are still available on the server whenever you connect OE to the server. So despite you caching a local copy to read off- or online, it will disappear from OE if it disappears from the server. That's why you need to move the articles to a different "holding" folder that is not the newsgroups folder that syncs with the server. You break the sync link so the article remains in that holding folder.
From: VanguardLH on 30 Jan 2009 12:57 PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: > Devil's Advocate: If posts were not removed from OE (in its current design > state) when they were removed from the server and a heavy newsgroup user > never deleted any posts manually, consider how bloated and ripe for > corruption the message store would become over time! How true. There is still the 2GB maximum file size for the .dbx files used by OE. That means you cannot store more than 2GB worth of headers and bodies in a .dbx file for a newsgroup. Exceeding that threshold results in a corrupted .dbx file. So with NNTP servers with extreme retention intervals and with a user that downloads all headers and also all their bodies then it becomes more likely the 2GB threshold gets exceeded. See Microsoft's KB article 903095.
From: Neil on 30 Jan 2009 16:37 "Ron Sommer" <rsommer(a)nospam.ktis.net> wrote in message news:eL5vszvgJHA.956(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > > "Neil" <nrgins(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > news:EIEgl.16541$c45.8516(a)nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com... >> >> "Ron Sommer" <rsommer(a)nospam.ktis.net> wrote in message >> news:eLCbDYugJHA.500(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> >>> >>> "Neil" <nrgins(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:mEAgl.16535$c45.7806(a)nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>> >>>> "VanguardLH" <V(a)nguard.LH> wrote in message >>>> news:glu9j6$ph5$1(a)news.motzarella.org... >>>>> Bruce Hagen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> News servers only keep posts for a period of time. Each server is >>>>>> different. >>>>>> MSNews keeps them for 90 days. Some servers keep them longer, some >>>>>> only for >>>>>> a few days. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want to keep posts indefinitely, copy them to an OE local >>>>>> folder. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, make sure that in View | Current View, you have Show All >>>>>> Messages and >>>>>> Group messages By Conversation checked and nothing else. >>>>> >>>>> The reason regarding Bruce's reply is that OE remains in sync with the >>>>> NNTP server. If the NNTP server expires and drops a post then so, >>>>> too, >>>>> will OE. You need to move items out of the newsgroups folder in OE if >>>>> you don't want them to get synchronized (i.e., deleted in OE after the >>>>> NNTP server deleted them). >>>> >>>> Again, I have my synchronization settings set to "No synchronization." >>>> And I remember my headers used to stay indefinitely. Once a header was >>>> downloaded, it would just stay in the folder. If I hadn't gotten the >>>> body of a message, and it scrolled off the server, then, yeah, it was >>>> too late (and when I tried to get that expired text, OE would show the >>>> header in strikethrough text; but the header would still be there). >>>> >>>> So what's the point of having a synchronization setting of "no >>>> synchronization" if OE is going to synchronize anyway? Doesn't make >>>> sense. And, like I said, didn't used to be that way. I remember a point >>>> where OE would keep downloaded headers indefinitely. >>>> >>>> Also, what's the point of having a "Delete news messages X days after >>>> being downloaded" if OE is just going to delete them anyway, regardless >>>> of the setting. Again, doesn't make sense. >>>> >>>> >>> A newsgroup is synchronized when you view the newsgroup if you are >>> online. >>> Old messages will be removed when they expire from the server. >>> The synchronization settings apply to downloading of messages, not to >>> the removal of old messages. >>> If you do not want messages from a particular folder or newsgroup to be >>> downloaded, click Don't Synchronize. >> >> So what you're saying is that if I click "Don't Synchronize," then >> messages from that particular newsgroup will not be downloaded. Is that >> what you're saying? Because that appears to be what you're saying. Yet I >> have "Don't Synchronize" set for ALL my newsgroups. Yet I don't seem to >> have any problem downloading messages. >> >> So, what am I not seeing here? >> >> >> >>> The only way to keep old messages is to move them to a user created >>> folder. >> >> > > "If you do not want messages from a particular folder or newsgroup to be > downloaded, click Don't Synchronize." comes from OE help. Doesn't mean it's correct. > Tools, Accounts, newsgroup server settings has Include this account when > sending and receiving. I have that box UNCHECKED for the server I use to access my newsgroups. When I press F5 (Send and Receive All), it DOES NOT get messages for the newsgroup, because that's unchecked. But it does get new headers when I click on the newsgroup, or when I do "Get Next Headers." > All newsgroups under that server will be affected by that setting. OK. So I'm not using that setting. The box is unchecked. And I have "Don't Synchronize" selected for all newsgroups. Yet I still get messages and headers. > Each newsgroup has synchronization settings. Those settings apply when OE > sends and receives. OK. Since I'm not using Send and Receive for newsgroups, it doesn't seem to apply here. > When you view a newsgroup and you are online, that newsgroup will be > synchronized and headers, new messages only, or all messages will be > downloaded. Again, I have "Don't Synchronize" selected. So mine shouldn't be synchronized. > By being online and entering the newsgroup, you are telling OE to > synchronize. Even though "Don't Synchronize" is selected??? That doesn't make any sense. > You can't get new messages or headers without synchronizing. And yet I do! Imagine that! I get new headers when I go to the newsgroup, and I get new messages when I click on the headers. And yet I don't use synchronization. So I guess you CAN get new messages or headers without synchronizing. Imagine that! > -- > Ronald Sommer > >
From: Neil on 30 Jan 2009 16:39
"D. Spencer Hines" <panther(a)excelsior.com> wrote in message news:eeMDFMvgJHA.1252(a)TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Actually... > > I think Microsoft was right on this one. > > Put the newsgroup messages you want to save in a/several folder/s you have > designed for that purpose. > > Keep Outlook Express... > > Lean & Mean. So Microsoft is right to FORCE me to keep Outlook Express Lean & Mean and not give me a choice? They're right to force me to have to move every message I want to save into new folders or have them be deleted against my will? They're right to delete things from my hard drive even when I tell them not to? You're an idiot. I'm sorry, but you are. > > DSH > Lux et Veritas et Libertas > Vires et Honor > > "Neil" <nrgins(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > news:MNEgl.16543$c45.779(a)nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com... > >> "D. Spencer Hines" <panther(a)excelsior.com> wrote in message >> news:OrITbnugJHA.448(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > >>> Actually... >>> >>> I think Microsoft was right on this one. >>> >>> Newsgroup messages SHOULD be moved to a user-designed folder if he wants >>> them to be saved. > > <baldersnip> > |