Thoughts are objects, mind and brain are identical
in [Physics]
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From: Immortalista on 15 Jun 2010 19:24 One form of materialism is the view that mental states are identical with brain states. To have a certain kind of mental state is the same thing as having a certain type of brain state. To think a certain sort of thought is to have a certain sort of thing happen in the brain. To feel pain is to have another sort of thing happen in the brain. To wish for good weather is to have another sort of thing happen in the brain. This theory is called the mind-brain identity theory. Persons And Their World: An Introduction to Philosophy - Jeffrey Olen http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0075543117/ Mental states are objects, like tables or chairs. They are events, like the kicking of a football. Thinking is a mental state, an object. So are wishing and hoping and dreaming objects if objects are just events. These are all mental events, things that we do. Therefore there are such "objects" as thoughts, wishes, hopes,, or images. What is the difference between an event and an object? No difference because all known objects are events based upon interactive processes. (Nominalism) An event is a happening, an occurrence. It is what objects do, what happens to objects. Take, for example, the event of kicking a football. If I kick a football, there are only two objects involved-me and the ball. There is also the event of my kicking the ball, but that event is not a third object True, we sometimes talk as though there were such objects as kicks. We say that someone made a good kick, or that a kick saved a game, or that a field-goal kicker made five kicks during a game. But that is just a manner of speaking. There are no such objects as kicks. Similarly, there are such objects as handshakes. If I shake a friend's hand, the objects involved are my hand and my friend's hand. We can talk as though there were a third thing. We can say, for example, that I gave my friend a firm handshake, which is really like giving someone a firm container. To give a firm handshake is to shake hands firmly. That is, there is only the event of shaking hands, but no such object as a handshake. Shaking hands is something we do.
From: raven1 on 15 Jun 2010 20:02 On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:24:34 -0700 (PDT), Immortalista <extropy1(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >One form of materialism is the view that mental states are identical >with brain states. To have a certain kind of mental state is the same >thing as having a certain type of brain state. To think a certain sort >of thought is to have a certain sort of thing happen in the brain. To >feel pain is to have another sort of thing happen in the brain. To >wish for good weather is to have another sort of thing happen in the >brain. This theory is called the mind-brain identity theory. > >Persons And Their World: An Introduction to Philosophy - Jeffrey Olen >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0075543117/ > >Mental states are objects, like tables or chairs. They are events, >like the kicking of a football. Thinking is a mental state, an object. >So are wishing and hoping and dreaming objects if objects are just >events. These are all mental events, things that we do. Therefore >there are such "objects" as thoughts, wishes, hopes,, or images. > >What is the difference between an event and an object? No difference >because all known objects are events based upon interactive processes. >(Nominalism) An event is a happening, an occurrence. It is what >objects do, what happens to objects. Take, for example, the event of >kicking a football. If I kick a football, there are only two objects >involved-me and the ball. There is also the event of my kicking the >ball, but that event is not a third object True, we sometimes talk as >though there were such objects as kicks. We say that someone made a >good kick, or that a kick saved a game, or that a field-goal kicker >made five kicks during a game. But that is just a manner of speaking. >There are no such objects as kicks. > >Similarly, there are such objects as handshakes. If I shake a friend's >hand, the objects involved are my hand and my friend's hand. We can >talk as though there were a third thing. We can say, for example, that >I gave my friend a firm handshake, which is really like giving someone >a firm container. To give a firm handshake is to shake hands firmly. >That is, there is only the event of shaking hands, but no such object >as a handshake. Shaking hands is something we do. Congratulations. You appear to have discovered the difference between verbs and nouns. Did you have a point?
From: Immortalist on 15 Jun 2010 20:28 On Jun 15, 5:02 pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:24:34 -0700 (PDT), Immortalista > > > > <extro...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >One form of materialism is the view that mental states are identical > >with brain states. To have a certain kind of mental state is the same > >thing as having a certain type of brain state. To think a certain sort > >of thought is to have a certain sort of thing happen in the brain. To > >feel pain is to have another sort of thing happen in the brain. To > >wish for good weather is to have another sort of thing happen in the > >brain. This theory is called the mind-brain identity theory. > > >Persons And Their World: An Introduction to Philosophy - Jeffrey Olen > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0075543117/ > > >Mental states are objects, like tables or chairs. They are events, > >like the kicking of a football. Thinking is a mental state, an object. > >So are wishing and hoping and dreaming objects if objects are just > >events. These are all mental events, things that we do. Therefore > >there are such "objects" as thoughts, wishes, hopes,, or images. > > >What is the difference between an event and an object? No difference > >because all known objects are events based upon interactive processes. > >(Nominalism) An event is a happening, an occurrence. It is what > >objects do, what happens to objects. Take, for example, the event of > >kicking a football. If I kick a football, there are only two objects > >involved-me and the ball. There is also the event of my kicking the > >ball, but that event is not a third object True, we sometimes talk as > >though there were such objects as kicks. We say that someone made a > >good kick, or that a kick saved a game, or that a field-goal kicker > >made five kicks during a game. But that is just a manner of speaking. > >There are no such objects as kicks. > > >Similarly, there are such objects as handshakes. If I shake a friend's > >hand, the objects involved are my hand and my friend's hand. We can > >talk as though there were a third thing. We can say, for example, that > >I gave my friend a firm handshake, which is really like giving someone > >a firm container. To give a firm handshake is to shake hands firmly. > >That is, there is only the event of shaking hands, but no such object > >as a handshake. Shaking hands is something we do. > > Congratulations. You appear to have discovered the difference between > verbs and nouns. Did you have a point? Can you explain your theory about nouns and verbs and how it applies to what I typed?
From: Androcles on 15 Jun 2010 20:30 "Immortalista" <extropy1(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:cb98da81-4358-45a7-a9c5-143f7ff38cd5(a)y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com... | One form of materialism is the view that mental states are identical | with brain states. To have a certain kind of mental state is the same | thing as having a certain type of brain state. Couldn't you just say software differs from hardware, or haven't you learnt about computers yet? The television is not the image on the screen or the sound in the speaker, the body is not the soul. Only engineers are interested in televisions, only surgeons are interested in anatomy. The rest of the world wants to laugh at the comedian on the screen or be shocked by the news. The mind is software, the brain is hardware. They are not the same. Go away, you are trivially not funny and intellectually boring.
From: John Stafford on 15 Jun 2010 21:08
In article <LWURn.39210$YG4.34074(a)newsfe10.ams2>, "Androcles" <Headmaster(a)Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote: > "Immortalista" <extropy1(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:cb98da81-4358-45a7-a9c5-143f7ff38cd5(a)y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com... > | One form of materialism is the view that mental states are identical > | with brain states. To have a certain kind of mental state is the same > | thing as having a certain type of brain state. > > Couldn't you just say software differs from hardware, or haven't > you learnt about computers yet? The television is not the image on > the screen or the sound in the speaker, the body is not the soul. > Only engineers are interested in televisions, only surgeons are > interested in anatomy. The rest of the world wants to laugh at > the comedian on the screen or be shocked by the news. > The mind is software, the brain is hardware. They are not the same. > Go away, you are trivially not funny and intellectually boring. Excellent thread. The brain is not a binary thing. Should we express what we call software and hardware analogies when addressing the human mind/brain issue? When we know that each term is simply taken from the discourse of current technology. I would look for another explanation of the relationship. The brain is not air, fire and water. By the same measure, it is not analog/digital. |