Unified FPGA Development Suite
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From: krw on 10 Oct 2009 01:05 On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:43:11 -0500, "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter(a)Hotmail.com> wrote: > >"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter(a)Hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:haoqug$35j$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga >> manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light >> versions >> for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even >> get >> libero to run because it crashes on startup. >> >> Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to >> program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga >> similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at >> the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any >> conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL >> Player. >> Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to >> have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could >> get >> nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality. > >BTW, I forgot to mention that I want to program in C++. Pure C++ but SystemC >or similar if necessary. Ick! You're going to pay through the nose for nothing.
From: John Larkin on 10 Oct 2009 01:14 On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:43:11 -0500, "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter(a)Hotmail.com> wrote: > >"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter(a)Hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:haoqug$35j$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga >> manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light >> versions >> for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even >> get >> libero to run because it crashes on startup. >> >> Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to >> program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga >> similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at >> the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any >> conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL >> Player. >> Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to >> have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could >> get >> nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality. > >BTW, I forgot to mention that I want to program in C++. Pure C++ but SystemC >or similar if necessary. > C++ is a procedural language. FPGAs are not procedural devices. John
From: John Larkin on 10 Oct 2009 01:19 On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:04:43 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter" ><Jon_Slaughter(a)Hotmail.com> wrote: > >>Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga >>manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions >>for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get >>libero to run because it crashes on startup. > >I had to download Libero four times at home before it would run. It >worked fine at work though. > >You can use Synplify, or a number of others, as the front end tool. If >you buy the license directly from Synopsis with the necessary >libraries for all vendors, but you're stuck with the manufacturer's >tools for the back end. Be warned, this approach is not for the poor >and is generally only done by those that either need really big >devices (and pay through the nose already) or need really fine tuned >logic. > >>Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? > >Just the download cable? Sure, do a web search. I think even >opencores has a design for a JTAG cable. I saw it somewhere recently >anyway. My time is worth more than $50 or $100 though. > >>How hard is it to program? > >Not sure what you're looking for. Programming the device is easy. >Creating the files is impossible (without the manufacturer's tools). > >>I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga >>similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). > >FOr SRAM based designs you have to do this every time you power on. >They generally have a choice of programming methods. Small devices >will use either JTAG or a serial flash interface. Larger devices will >add a parallel interface option. Flash based devices (CPLDs or FPGAs) >tend to use JTAG. You can either program them using a USB/JTAG cable >or via an embedded micro (they have the tools to embed the JTAG app). > >>Looking at >>the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any >>conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL Player. > >USB to JTAG cable. It's a flash based device so you don't have to >program it on each power up, though it's a good idea to be able to >update it in-system, so STAPL is in the cards. > > >>Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to >>have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could get >>nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality. > >IIRC Actel's download cable is $50 or so. Altera's is $150. It's not >that big of a deal. JTAG cables for UCs have similar costs. Anyway, >you might try opencores or try a web search. You can program the Xilinx parts with three wires from a parallel port and a little bit-banging code. John
From: krw on 10 Oct 2009 01:51 On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 22:19:01 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:04:43 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: > >>On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter" >><Jon_Slaughter(a)Hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>>Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga >>>manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions >>>for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get >>>libero to run because it crashes on startup. >> >>I had to download Libero four times at home before it would run. It >>worked fine at work though. >> >>You can use Synplify, or a number of others, as the front end tool. If >>you buy the license directly from Synopsis with the necessary >>libraries for all vendors, but you're stuck with the manufacturer's >>tools for the back end. Be warned, this approach is not for the poor >>and is generally only done by those that either need really big >>devices (and pay through the nose already) or need really fine tuned >>logic. >> >>>Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? >> >>Just the download cable? Sure, do a web search. I think even >>opencores has a design for a JTAG cable. I saw it somewhere recently >>anyway. My time is worth more than $50 or $100 though. >> >>>How hard is it to program? >> >>Not sure what you're looking for. Programming the device is easy. >>Creating the files is impossible (without the manufacturer's tools). >> >>>I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga >>>similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). >> >>FOr SRAM based designs you have to do this every time you power on. >>They generally have a choice of programming methods. Small devices >>will use either JTAG or a serial flash interface. Larger devices will >>add a parallel interface option. Flash based devices (CPLDs or FPGAs) >>tend to use JTAG. You can either program them using a USB/JTAG cable >>or via an embedded micro (they have the tools to embed the JTAG app). >> >>>Looking at >>>the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any >>>conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL Player. >> >>USB to JTAG cable. It's a flash based device so you don't have to >>program it on each power up, though it's a good idea to be able to >>update it in-system, so STAPL is in the cards. >> >> >>>Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to >>>have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could get >>>nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality. >> >>IIRC Actel's download cable is $50 or so. Altera's is $150. It's not >>that big of a deal. JTAG cables for UCs have similar costs. Anyway, >>you might try opencores or try a web search. > >You can program the Xilinx parts with three wires from a parallel port >and a little bit-banging code. Sure. You can do that with any of the SRAM based FPGAs via the serial configuration port. SRAM based FPGAs need to be configured at every power cycle though. Flash based FPGAs, of course, don't have to be programmed each time but have no serial (or parallel) configuration path, only JTAG. You could probably do JTAG programming that way too, via the STAPL player path. It's something he could look for. The other alternative is a CPLD (SRAM based, but flash built in), though he's already memory limited with the smaller FPGAs. CPLDs are even more limiting (trying to fit a design into a small, $2.50, Altera MaxII now).
From: Jim Thompson on 10 Oct 2009 11:33
On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:04:43 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter" ><Jon_Slaughter(a)Hotmail.com> wrote: > >>Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga >>manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions >>for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get >>libero to run because it crashes on startup. > >I had to download Libero four times at home before it would run. It >worked fine at work though. > >You can use Synplify, or a number of others, as the front end tool. If >you buy the license directly from Synopsis with the necessary >libraries for all vendors, but you're stuck with the manufacturer's >tools for the back end. Be warned, this approach is not for the poor >and is generally only done by those that either need really big >devices (and pay through the nose already) or need really fine tuned >logic. Is there a cheap synthesis tool for us poor analog guys that will synthesize a modest sequential task (in gates)? > >>Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? > >Just the download cable? Sure, do a web search. I think even >opencores has a design for a JTAG cable. I saw it somewhere recently >anyway. My time is worth more than $50 or $100 though. > >>How hard is it to program? > >Not sure what you're looking for. Programming the device is easy. >Creating the files is impossible (without the manufacturer's tools). > >>I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga >>similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). > >FOr SRAM based designs you have to do this every time you power on. >They generally have a choice of programming methods. Small devices >will use either JTAG or a serial flash interface. Larger devices will >add a parallel interface option. Flash based devices (CPLDs or FPGAs) >tend to use JTAG. You can either program them using a USB/JTAG cable >or via an embedded micro (they have the tools to embed the JTAG app). > >>Looking at >>the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any >>conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL Player. > >USB to JTAG cable. It's a flash based device so you don't have to >program it on each power up, though it's a good idea to be able to >update it in-system, so STAPL is in the cards. > > >>Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to >>have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could get >>nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality. > >IIRC Actel's download cable is $50 or so. Altera's is $150. It's not >that big of a deal. JTAG cables for UCs have similar costs. Anyway, >you might try opencores or try a web search. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |