Unified FPGA Development Suite
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From: langwadt on 10 Oct 2009 13:51 On 10 Okt., 04:43, "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh...(a)Hotmail.com> wrote: > "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh...(a)Hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:haoqug$35j$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > > > > Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga > > manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light > > versions > > for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even > > get > > libero to run because it crashes on startup. > > > Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to > > program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga > > similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at > > the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any > > conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL > > Player. > > Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to > > have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could > > get > > nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality. > > BTW, I forgot to mention that I want to program in C++. Pure C++ but SystemC > or similar if necessary. so what you really want to know is what hammer is best suited to work with diffent types of screws, nuts and bolts because screwdrivers and wrenches take up to much space in the toolbox ... ;) pick an fpga that matches you needs, get and use the tools the manufactures made for it, you'll need their backend anyway. Program in verilog or vhdl thats languages made for that specific purpose -Lasse
From: krw on 10 Oct 2009 13:55 On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 08:33:24 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:04:43 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: > >>On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter" >><Jon_Slaughter(a)Hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>>Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga >>>manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions >>>for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get >>>libero to run because it crashes on startup. >> >>I had to download Libero four times at home before it would run. It >>worked fine at work though. >> >>You can use Synplify, or a number of others, as the front end tool. If >>you buy the license directly from Synopsis with the necessary >>libraries for all vendors, but you're stuck with the manufacturer's >>tools for the back end. Be warned, this approach is not for the poor >>and is generally only done by those that either need really big >>devices (and pay through the nose already) or need really fine tuned >>logic. > >Is there a cheap synthesis tool for us poor analog guys that will >synthesize a modest sequential task (in gates)? Not sure what you want to do. Describe a function in HDL and have it spit out unit logic? I don't know of anything that does that. Some tools have a logic viewer that might do it. I think Actel's is included in the free tools, but I haven't used it yet (trying not to use Actel, right now).
From: Charlie E. on 10 Oct 2009 14:18 On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter(a)Hotmail.com> wrote: >Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga >manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions >for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get >libero to run because it crashes on startup. > >Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to >program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga >similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at >the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any >conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL Player. >Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to >have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could get >nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality. > Jon, Ok, thought about this a bit. Part of the problem is that the EDA companies basically just provide a front end for the FPGA company's tools. They don't try and duplicate that back end effort, it isn't worth it for them. So, if you want to do more than just preliminary designs for each vendor, you will still have to install X number of starter editions for each vendor you want to try. For the price, Altium at $3999 is probably the cheapest major company. When paired with their nanoboards, you can get a decent development platform to really try things out. Their latest nanoboard is only $399 and comes with a years subscription to the front end software. There may be other small players, like Proteus, but I am unfamiliar with the tools. Charlie
From: Jim Thompson on 10 Oct 2009 16:55 On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:55:32 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 08:33:24 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:04:43 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >> >>>On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter" >>><Jon_Slaughter(a)Hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga >>>>manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions >>>>for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get >>>>libero to run because it crashes on startup. >>> >>>I had to download Libero four times at home before it would run. It >>>worked fine at work though. >>> >>>You can use Synplify, or a number of others, as the front end tool. If >>>you buy the license directly from Synopsis with the necessary >>>libraries for all vendors, but you're stuck with the manufacturer's >>>tools for the back end. Be warned, this approach is not for the poor >>>and is generally only done by those that either need really big >>>devices (and pay through the nose already) or need really fine tuned >>>logic. >> >>Is there a cheap synthesis tool for us poor analog guys that will >>synthesize a modest sequential task (in gates)? > >Not sure what you want to do. Describe a function in HDL and have it >spit out unit logic? I don't know of anything that does that. Some >tools have a logic viewer that might do it. I think Actel's is >included in the free tools, but I haven't used it yet (trying not to >use Actel, right now). Clearly I'm not a digital guy... at least beyond pure combinational reduction, which I actually used to teach about 40 years ago. What I'd like is some tool that took in a truth table, each line representing states at that clock tick, spitting out gates, flops, etc., to implement that ;-) I know. I know. Hire you ?:-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
From: krw on 10 Oct 2009 17:18
On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:51:22 -0700 (PDT), "langwadt(a)fonz.dk" <langwadt(a)fonz.dk> wrote: >On 10 Okt., 04:43, "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh...(a)Hotmail.com> wrote: >> "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh...(a)Hotmail.com> wrote in message >> >> news:haoqug$35j$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >> >> >> > Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga >> > manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light >> > versions >> > for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even >> > get >> > libero to run because it crashes on startup. >> >> > Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? �How hard is it to >> > program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga >> > similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). �Looking at >> > the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any >> > conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL >> > Player. >> > Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to >> > have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could >> > get >> > nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality. >> >> BTW, I forgot to mention that I want to program in C++. Pure C++ but SystemC >> or similar if necessary. > >so what you really want to know is what hammer is best suited to work >with diffent types >of screws, nuts and bolts because screwdrivers and wrenches take up to >much space in >the toolbox ... ;) I like the analogy. >pick an fpga that matches you needs, get and use the tools the >manufactures made for it, >you'll need their backend anyway. Program in verilog or vhdl thats >languages made for that >specific purpose Unless, for some reason, you're pushing the envelop, this is the only way to go. Third party tools are very good, but incredibly costly. If the performance, or device size, isn't needed the manufacturer's tools work very well now. The only possible exception is simulation where the manufacturer's tools are limited (crippleware versions of ModelSim, usually). ModelSim is expensive too, though. |