VOPS
in [Visual Objects]
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From: Marc Verkade [Marti IT] on 13 Nov 2005 17:51 > If Brian and I met on the street tomorrow I would still say hello and > smile (and mean it) and if he offered to sit down and have a single malt > scotch, I would. Hai Geoff, I have met you several times and I think you are a nice pall and I know when you mee Brian you will buy him a beer. But there is a great difference between the Geoff standing in front of you talking and drinking a beer and the Geoff not knowing when to stop arguing and always wants to claim his right in this NG. That's what I find difficult to understand. -- Grtz, Marc Verkade "Geoff Schaller" <geoffxx(a)softxxwareobjectives.com.au> schreef in bericht news:43753b4f$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au... > Jamal. > >> 1. Free fixes for long?? Years?? Come on! <g> > > Actually, for as long as it takes. I've paid personally for 6 VO licences > and 2 VOPS subscriptions. I've paid for every new version that came along, > as it came out. I will keep doing so (except for VOPS because I am not > allowed to subscribe). And yes, I expect to keep getting fixes. All my > other software suppliers provide fixes. VO2Ado, bBrowser, Microsoft, IBM, > LeadIT, Help & Manual and many others. > >> 2. Small fee for upgrades? OK, that sounds reasonble, but what is a small >> fee after all? And what if the upgarde contains bugs and you know could >> very well it could happen? > > But where is the real problem here? 1000 people paying $100 is better than > 100 people paying $1000 because your commercial risk is lower. I see > nothing wrong with this and would gladly pay for continual releases. It > was the alternate to a VOPS and again, Brian rejected the idea. > >> Is GrafX supposed to keep providing free bug fixes >> forever? <g> Some people still 1.0 and still expect bugs fixes. > > Come on Jamal, the standard mantra from most people in this forum is to > cry "Upgrade!". I don't see too many people getting support for VO 1.0. > >> 3. I won't speak for Brian, but you sound very bitter. Just because there >> were some delays to unforeseen reasons, you start this misinformation >> campaign. Wonder why? Is because you kicked off the VOPS forum?! > > Why does everyone speak of bitterness? Give ME a break! Most people who > know me would understand that bitterness is not a concept I could > subscribe to so please do not judge my attitudes and motives by yours. > Brian and I disagree. I have said my piece and Brian has said his. He > controls the VOPS forum and has decided I cannot remain within. Ok, so it > doesn't affect my commercial life one little bit because I can turn out > commercially acceptable product right now whether VO improves or not. > > If Brian and I met on the street tomorrow I would still say hello and > smile (and mean it) and if he offered to sit down and have a single malt > scotch, I would. We disagree fundamentally on how the VOPS should be run > and I will continue to agitate for improvements to VO32 but that doesn't > mean we have to aim guns at one another. I fundamentally disagree with > things my kids do all the time and my parents disagree with things I do > and say. It hasn't stopped any of us communicating or becoming bitter. I > wonder why people like you see things in such absolutes? > > So for me, that is where it stops. I do not hold or have grudges because I > don't see a need or a reason for them. Mature people can disagree without > it becoming a personal thing and it's a pity more of the world didn't act > that way. We'd have less wars for a start. Don't turn disagreement into a > 'War of the Roses' because for me it isn't. > >> I for one want development to be in VO and Vulcan. VO32 for now is very >> stable and as they look ahead I want all the effort to be in Vulcan.NET >> and I will support it. > > Right, but there'd be many people in this forum who would disagree. You > are now compounding the fears of many that VOPS is in fact pulling > GrafXSoft away from VO32 development and into Vulcan quite > disproportionately. Thank you for your honesty. > > I too am interested in a Vulcan.Net but I am still equally concerned for > development and bug fixes for VO32. VOPS promised equal support for both. > You are further evidence that 'equal' is probably not possible. > > Geoff > >
From: @je on 13 Nov 2005 18:05 :-) Nice ideas, why no access to the NG, I have never doen anything wrong have I? Ed "Marc Verkade [Marti IT]" <marc(a)martiXYZNOSPAMZYX.nl> wrote in message news:4377c14c$0$99106> And about the VO part.. I too think a fix-release would be apropriate for > the NON-VOPS people but then again, this is up to Grafx. I suggest > dropping a note to Brian where you describe the urgency of a problem with > the problem analysed and presented with a sample. Perhaps he will ship you > a version where the bug is fixed. Or you could suggest to Brian a VOPS > membership without access to the VOPS NG so you can get the latest VO32 > versions.
From: Geoff Schaller on 13 Nov 2005 18:22 Marc, If you think about it, the "geoff's" are not so different. When we are face to face you and I can look one another in the eye and say our piece, argue politely and then if we still disagree, we just part company still friends. We don't have to agree on everything and I suspect we never will. That's OK. For some reason here (and maybe because we cannot look 'eye-to-eye') people seem to take things on a very personal level and then resort to silly personal attacks. Further, I don't think they really try to read the post or listen to someone try to qualify their writing if challenged. I don't resort to silly attacks but I will comment strongly. That's me. If the other side of the equation does not want to continue arguing then they should say their piece and be done. Everyone else is free to ignore. Now look back at my position over the range of posts in the last 48 hrs. You would be entitled to draw the following conclusions: 1. I believe in a VOPS or something like it for VO's future. 2. I believe Vulcan is necessary for VO's future 3. I think Vulcan has been going great guns. At no stage have I spoken against VOPS or Vulcan yet that might not be the conclusion you would draw reading other people's posts. I do however have the following additional attitudes: 1. I am unhappy with the VO32 support being given by GrafXSoft 2. I am unhappy with the lack of information from GrafXSoft 3. I now believe there are better models for the VOPS. 4. I am uncomfortable with the attitude to bug fixes. 5. I am unhappy that Brian can and does now discriminate on who can pay for fixes and upgrades to their VO version via the VOPS. 6. I have not asked anything it is not reasonable to ask. In the Microsoft world there are whole forums dedicated to complaining about Microsoft. These are sponsored by Microsoft and Microsoft seems entirely happy to live with it and deal with it. That is a mature approach but it is a maturity that seems to escape Brian. It's a pity. Geoff
From: Marc Verkade [Marti IT] on 13 Nov 2005 18:32 Not that I am aware of.... -- Grtz, Marc Verkade "@je" <Ed_XXX_@_XXX_SoftwareObjectives.com.au> schreef in bericht news:4377c5a0$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au... > :-) Nice ideas, why no access to the NG, I have never doen anything wrong > have I? > > Ed > > "Marc Verkade [Marti IT]" <marc(a)martiXYZNOSPAMZYX.nl> wrote in message > news:4377c14c$0$99106> And about the VO part.. I too think a fix-release > would be apropriate for >> the NON-VOPS people but then again, this is up to Grafx. I suggest >> dropping a note to Brian where you describe the urgency of a problem with >> the problem analysed and presented with a sample. Perhaps he will ship >> you a version where the bug is fixed. Or you could suggest to Brian a >> VOPS membership without access to the VOPS NG so you can get the latest >> VO32 versions. > >
From: Ginny Caughey on 13 Nov 2005 20:10
Ed, Please don't try to shoot the messenger. <g> Geoff asked if there were announcements, and I reported them. I think it's pretty unlikely that Grafx would be able to sell very many copies of VO 2.8 if nobody knew what the enhancements were, so surely by the time 2.8 is ready for sale, that detailed info will be available. -- Ginny "@je" <Ed_XXX_@_XXX_SoftwareObjectives.com.au> wrote in message news:4377b14b$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au... > We seen that statement before, why would we believe that now? > > Ed > > "Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online(a)wasteworks.com> wrote in message > news:3tjraiFsms2rU1(a)individual.net... >> NC, >> >> There was no announcement about the details of VO 2.8, but it is not a >> patch and will contain new functionality. I'm sure by the time 2.8 is >> available those details will also be available however. >> >> I'm not sure what you mean about Vulcan and CULE, but if you prefer CULE >> then of course that is what you should use. If you want to wait to make a >> decision until after Vulcan.NET is released, then you can compare them at >> that point and decide which meets your needs better. >> >> -- >> Ginny >> >> >> "N.Coppernigk" <n.coppernigk(a)gazeta.pl> wrote in message >> news:1131722267.866773.146810(a)g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >>> Hi Ginny, >>> >>> thanks for sharing the news with us. >>> >>>> There will be no more free public patches to VO 2.7. >>> >>> So what is new in VO2.8 ? >>> If it contains only a patch, it makes concerns for me >>> to pay for a patch. >>> If this go on with Vulcan, i prefer further CULE. >>> >>> Bye >>> NC >>> >> >> > > |