VOPS
in [Visual Objects]
|
From: Geoff Schaller on 14 Nov 2005 15:57 Filip. The fact of the matter is that VO32 development has stalled. No matter what the reason, it is clear that inadequate resources have been allocated to the task. And 2.8 was promised 24 months ago but we still have a further 8-10 to wait. This is a long time between drinks and we still don't even know what is being planned. Nothing of value was released at the most recent conference. And you are missing the point about paying for upgrades: most people are clearly saying that they would but they just won't join a VOPS, particularly at the high cost it has now become and particularly with the low priority it gives VO32. Yes, Brian has succeeded in polarising the VO audience into VO32 vs Vulcan so now he should redesign his VOPS plan and make money out of both camps. Geoff "Filip Fransen" <filip.fransen@_nosmap_datsup.be> wrote in message news:4378a671$0$10951$ba620e4c(a)news.skynet.be: > I normally don't respond to this kind of threads but there is always a first > time for everything : > > 1) Without grafxsoft there would be no vo32 anymore. > 2) Every company makes their own upgrade policy ( so do I ) whether we like > it or not. > 3) With VOPS we get frequent updates and have direct contact with de > development team. > 4) This comes with a price which is neglectable for professional developpers > ( yes even for small companies - like mine ) > 5) Most ( if not all ) sourcode of vo32 party software is available. So when > you have a compiler upgrade you can recompile all yourself and/or fix small > bugs yourself. I've done this for classmate / reportpro / vocom etc... > 6) A small delay has been in the vops program because of Robert's illness / > Hurricane > 7) Vulcan will be the successor of vo32 and grafxsoft made promisses of -as > much as- possible compatibility with vo. > ( limited to .clr ) > 8) Vo2.8 is scheduled for summer2005 ( bug fixes and enhancements ) > 9) Maybe the development of vo32 isn't going as fast as everyone would like > but remember they inherited this from ca. > I'm pretty sure vulcan won't suffer from the same sickness. > 10) I'm not pro / contra microsoft but they are not cheap either in the long > run ( yes I know they have limited cheap programs like isv ) > > If I compare vo under ca or grafxsoft. I must say that the latest version is > great. I don't say it's perfect but a lot of issues has been solved. I'm > sure that once Robert is healed the other bugs will be fixed too. For the > ones that does think it isn't fair that there would be no free upgrades > anymore : I understand both points of view but get over it if you use vo for > your profession. I didn't take me more then 1 minute do decide : I've more > then 3milj lines of code to maintain for the next 5 years. So vulcan isn't > that important to me at this moment but will be in the next years. > Grafx keep on the good work ( only the communication could be better ) > > Filip > > > "stbo66" <stbo66(a)yahoo.it> wrote in message > news:dkskit$7l2$1(a)domitilla.aioe.org... > > >I read vops program. I think i will subscribe it if... > > > > What are the benefits for vops users that ar using vo with classmate and > > rp3x ? > > Vulcan.net is avaiable ? > > > > Many thanks > > Stefano Bonacina > > > > > > > >
From: @je on 14 Nov 2005 16:16 Hi Will, Maybe I always had that disease, but I never showed it in public. I've always been very loyal towards VO and it's development team. I've always discussed issues inprivate. This is no longer the case. I think I'm just being honest and I do not see what I should be careful about? Can't I be honest and ask the questions that are on my mind? Anyway, we don't get answers, so it won't take too long until I shut my mouth around here, just like so many others. Ed "Will Chapman" <nbquidditchjunk(a)dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:u-WdnQwVqJUtTOXenZ2dnUVZ8qednZ2d(a)pipex.net... > @je wrote: >> :-) Nice ideas, why no access to the NG, I have never doen anything >> wrong have I? >> > Ed > > The only thing you did wrong Ed was not to tell Geoff to button his lip.. > but be careful, sme of the comments you have been making recently on > this group group suggest that the particular strain of foot & mouth > disease that Geoff suffers from may be catching........ > -- > Cheers....... > > > Will Chapman > nb Quidditch > >
From: Filip Fransen on 14 Nov 2005 16:44 Geoff, 1) Yes, I know that the development of VO32 is kind of stalled but I must say that my most urgent request/bugs are solved with vo27/vops. But times are changing and microsoft is pushing everyone into the dotnet hype. Personally I don't like being pushed by microsoft but in the end they will win. And here is the dilemma : what is the most important : more effort in vo32 or more effort in vulcan. Personally I'm not waiting for 2.8. At this moment I can do everything I need ( besides a few bugs left ). So I can continue to provide my clients with the software they need. In the future we probably all have to go dotnet. Then we have several choices : Vulcan / Cule / C# Vb.net and others. I will investigate them in this order. But if grafx deliver what they promise it will be vulcan... 2) I understand that there are people who find the cost too high for vops. But as I said vo27/vops saved me 100's of hours due too bug fixes so it paid of easely. I won't get into the discussion who's right or not because too me there is no right or wrong only opinion. The only thing that I can advise is that all non-vops users send an email to Brian and 'ask' for a solution of any kind ... 3) There is no vo32 vs vulcan. It's an evolution dictated bij microsoft and nothing more. And grafx has to deal with this like we all have to do sooner or later. Maybe vops should be split into several levels of support but that's upto Brian. Of the record I do respect your opinion although I don't always agree with it. Filip "Geoff Schaller" <geoffxx(a)softxxwareobjectives.com.au> wrote in message news:4378fa1f$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au... > Filip. > > The fact of the matter is that VO32 development has stalled. No matter > what the reason, it is clear that inadequate resources have been allocated > to the task. And 2.8 was promised 24 months ago but we still have a > further 8-10 to wait. This is a long time between drinks and we still > don't even know what is being planned. Nothing of value was released at > the most recent conference. And you are missing the point about paying for > upgrades: most people are clearly saying that they would but they just > won't join a VOPS, particularly at the high cost it has now become and > particularly with the low priority it gives VO32. > > Yes, Brian has succeeded in polarising the VO audience into VO32 vs Vulcan > so now he should redesign his VOPS plan and make money out of both camps. > > Geoff > > > "Filip Fransen" <filip.fransen@_nosmap_datsup.be> wrote in message > news:4378a671$0$10951$ba620e4c(a)news.skynet.be: > >> I normally don't respond to this kind of threads but there is always a >> first >> time for everything : >> >> 1) Without grafxsoft there would be no vo32 anymore. >> 2) Every company makes their own upgrade policy ( so do I ) whether we >> like >> it or not. >> 3) With VOPS we get frequent updates and have direct contact with de >> development team. >> 4) This comes with a price which is neglectable for professional >> developpers >> ( yes even for small companies - like mine ) >> 5) Most ( if not all ) sourcode of vo32 party software is available. So >> when >> you have a compiler upgrade you can recompile all yourself and/or fix >> small >> bugs yourself. I've done this for classmate / reportpro / vocom etc... >> 6) A small delay has been in the vops program because of Robert's illness >> / >> Hurricane >> 7) Vulcan will be the successor of vo32 and grafxsoft made promisses >> of -as >> much as- possible compatibility with vo. >> ( limited to .clr ) >> 8) Vo2.8 is scheduled for summer2005 ( bug fixes and enhancements ) >> 9) Maybe the development of vo32 isn't going as fast as everyone would >> like >> but remember they inherited this from ca. >> I'm pretty sure vulcan won't suffer from the same sickness. >> 10) I'm not pro / contra microsoft but they are not cheap either in the >> long >> run ( yes I know they have limited cheap programs like isv ) >> >> If I compare vo under ca or grafxsoft. I must say that the latest version >> is >> great. I don't say it's perfect but a lot of issues has been solved. I'm >> sure that once Robert is healed the other bugs will be fixed too. For the >> ones that does think it isn't fair that there would be no free upgrades >> anymore : I understand both points of view but get over it if you use vo >> for >> your profession. I didn't take me more then 1 minute do decide : I've >> more >> then 3milj lines of code to maintain for the next 5 years. So vulcan >> isn't >> that important to me at this moment but will be in the next years. >> Grafx keep on the good work ( only the communication could be better ) >> >> Filip >> >> >> "stbo66" <stbo66(a)yahoo.it> wrote in message >> news:dkskit$7l2$1(a)domitilla.aioe.org... >> >> >I read vops program. I think i will subscribe it if... >> > >> > What are the benefits for vops users that ar using vo with classmate >> > and >> > rp3x ? >> > Vulcan.net is avaiable ? >> > >> > Many thanks >> > Stefano Bonacina >> > >> > >> > >> > >
From: Will Chapman on 15 Nov 2005 06:26 @je wrote: > Hi Will, > Maybe I always had that disease, but I never showed it in public. I've > always been very loyal towards VO and it's development team. I've > always discussed issues inprivate. This is no longer the case. I > think I'm just being honest and I do not see what I should be careful > about? Can't I be honest and ask the questions that are on my mind? Ed Of course we should be able to ask questions. Its only healthy. What I detect though, in some posts, are shades of personal animosity creeping through. I can understand that you and Geoff are a bit miffed at being dumped from VOPS but that is nothing to do with this forum and, as such, I believe you should resist the temptation to make 'points'. It has often been said that one of the great strengths of VO is this ng and it would be a shame if it degenerates into a continual slanging match. We all know VO is not perfect and probably never will be but to my mind its future will not be served if we keep taking shots at Grafx. Let's let them get on with their plan without sniping from the side-lines. Cheers.... Will Chapman
From: Johel on 15 Nov 2005 06:47
Jamal > doing. I am just thinking ahead to pave the path to .NET. Why would anyone > be fearful of the future? PMFJI... If, and I said _if_, Google is the future then DotNet has no place there because DotNet is a MS-Windows only technology. Mono for Windows/Linux is just a Novell funded effort with no help from MS. Be it VO, CULE or Vulcan, it does not matter anymore. I did buy CULE. But I really do not know if I'm going to use it. Any MS-Windows only development tool is looking more and more a thing of the past. Nowadays we have: - free versions of MS-SQL Server, IBM-DB2, Oracle 10, Ingres R3, etc - AJAX - XAML (almost RTM) So we, the developers, have: - no need anymore for DBFs and related RDDs due to the free RDBMSs available. - no need anymore for access to the VO's binaries (so one could move windows to DotNet languages) due to XAML technology. - no need anymore to be tied to MS' tools/OS due to AJAX concept and technology. Anyway, my point is that Google does _not_ use _any_ MS software and is making more money/employee than MS and making MS run for its money. Johel |